New ITCC Event

David,

I proposed the chain saw toss to be a fund raiser for the Tree Fund. To keep things in a little more order I proposed making it an underhanded toss. Toe up to a line and chuck the saw as far as you can. At one time I had enough Poulan 25 carcasses to make at least ten tossers.

I like the idea of a chainsaw limb toss station. The scenario could be to make the stub cut after the branch has been rigged out. With some planning, there could be four/five branches strapped into the tree with a real branch collar. Points would be gained by making a proper collar cut too. Heck, to make things easy to judge use ash or something with a really evident collar. The climber would have free reign to carry the saw or haul it up for the one cut. Leave the rules of execution a bit more open to keep with the MC feel. The pre-lims are regimented already.
 
I used to throw my chainsaw from the tree all the time... along with hardhats, gloves etc. Temper fits!! Got expensive though. I should do well in that event with all my experience
 
In my opinion when it comes to a new event for the ITCC; they should first adress the problems w/ the current events. The throwline event, seems to be the most inconsistent judge of skill i've ever seen. This event might need revamped or removed all together.
Secondly, Aerial rescue, I'm not too sure how many climbers out there are setting extra access lines in trees which they are climbing. I know some of us may, but lets get realistic; the majority of the time it's just not practical. So if this is true, why is there a preset line in this event? With this set up people come up w/ all kinds of ways to access/ rescue; none of which are practical to a real world scenario.
In regard to a new event. Once these two issues are adressed then it will be time to look into this. I would like to see an event based upon accessing the tree. It would be judged based on speed creativity, efficiency and overall effectiveness. This would allow climbers to show off some of there creativeness, and express some individuality. There isn't room enough for this except in the Masters' Challenge.
 
just curious , What is wrong with the rope throw event?
The AR , i understand , what other sport event acknowledges injuries in a profession to the point where you need an event to showcase all the skills you acquired rescuing your own. Solo tree rescue, "look mom a tree rescue event , if I get hurt working as a tree climber , I can be saved..."
 
I have to agree with Junkie here kind of.

What kind of rescue senario would you want? Leaving an access line is a good idea. (I USED to work like that.) So is having a rescue bag with a LONG rope, redirect, etc. I agree it is not realistic because nobody is prepared like that, maybe it is a sign that we should ask ourselves why we are not prepared like that? There is a difference between not being practical and not being practiced.

Throwline? Agreed. Some people are really good at it. I sub for a guy here that can nail 60-80ft crotches consistantly. It is a talent. Everyone can have a bad day. That goes for all the events. I set 2 lines last year when I competed - proof that every once and a while ,even a blind hog can find an acorn.

I hear of Chapters having a hard time oganizing and finishing what events there are now. Plus sometimes, less is more.

.02
 
This post is a little old but it is comp. time.
I would like to see TCC as a team event. Even ITCC.
How many work alone on an everyday basis. Sure we have all done solo climbs and such, but 98% of time you have a good groundie to help with set-ups while your working on the next task.
I think the set-up for this would not be much more of a hassle. If anything the score sheet would have more changes??
Picture it like the logging comps. They have a team of 5, I think. Also think it would speed up events a little.
Lots of possibilities there.
You can also assemble teams from local TCC to compete against other teams in ITCC. Another thing with that is instead of a buckle, which is a little gay. Buckles are good for one thing, a wrap up side the head... Anyway, we need...... The Climbers Cup.... like lord stanleys cup. All winners are engraved, stating with the originator to current. You can take it home till next year. That will give more meaning to "taking home the crown".
I like the ideas alot and think it would liven up ITCC a bit more. Let me know what you guys think. The possibilities are endless for this config.
Later

ps. Just having a second guy involved would ease the problems with current set-ups and rules.
 
hey yea, I like the team event idea. It may be a little harder than what the lumberjax do, but with time, something could be worked out.

ditto on the buckle. even though ive never seen one, it seems a little strange.
 
I agree completely w/ doing away w/ the buckle. As far as i'm concerned cowboys are the only people still wearing these silly pieces of metal. Sorry, I don't want the tree climbing industry to be associated w/ a bunch of cow folk. I think something better could definitely be devised. The cup idea is great.
Another thing, I wonder about the prizes available; from what i hear, the prizes available are much greater at the chapter level than that at the International. I sort of understand how this could be, however i'm not completely in agreement w/ this.
Anyway,,,no matter if any of this changes i someday hope to be able to compete at the Internatial level; whether it be for a belt buckle or a cup I still can't wait.
 
In the Illinos Chapter TCC we have a Corperate Cup Challenge. A company pays an additional fee and must have at least 3 people in the event. Top three combined scores gets the cup.
 
I know this thread is old, but....

I was thinking about a "what can you notice" type of event.

Could be done from the ground. Safe. Easy to set up. Rewards experience and knowledge. And as far as what to give points for, that's wide open. Could be anything from species, hazards, does tree need cable, where's best tie in, etc. etc.

My dad enjoys watching competitions with me, and one time he commented on a master challenge contender who was studying the "big" tree. He goes, "Its fasinating to watch you guys study the tree. You look like you're in the middle of a chess game. I look up there, and all I see is leaves." The landscapers I work with now say the same thing, cuz I'm always pausing to look up and do the removal in my head. /forum/images/graemlins/hisboids.gif
 
Hi Mark

You're right of course. The way I see it, and I'm sure I've said some of this before somewhere, is;

1 If the comps are to showcase professional arb skills, then ergonomic techniques should be promoted (see health forum)by replacing the footlock with SRT at about 60 ft.

2 If tree care is to be showcased, then it is a simple matter to have a disc of timber (eg pine)rigged in a frame with stubs. The competitor comes down from the work climb and has to cut off a stub with a handsaw. His resulting pruning cut is assessed by a biologist! A heading cut could also be rigged.

3 for knot tying, the competitor has to rig his own system (with a pre-installed tagline)in a certain time frame. He is judged by the clock , accuracy of knots and an ergonomics expert for style.

Make space for the above by scrapping the rescue - its not real enough. Better to ask masters finalists questions on aerial rescue procedure, with some interesting variables!

I also think there is scope for chainsaw skills - why not make the masters finalists come down, change into c/saw PPE and cut a notch and back cut in a log on a frame. Once they've started each cut, they're not allowed to re-enter the saw on that line. They are assessed on time and accuracy of cuts. No need to fell a log. The competitor then decides whether to do the whole climb in c/saw PPE and jump straight on the saw log when he gets down, or climbs lighter and quick changes when he hits the deck (just like at work!). They should also prune a branch stub.

This way, the masters will demo ergonomic and efficient ascent, sympathetic and smooth movement in the crown, safe descent, knot tying skills, c/saw skills and pruning skills.

I think there are enough ideas there to juggle for a solution. It might even motivate me to compete again.
 
[ QUOTE ]

As a rope rescue instructor, I'd have to agree. But given what we now know about the rapid and potentially fatal onset of harness suspension trauma (as little as 5 minutes), it might make sense to keep that as a target.
Robert

[/ QUOTE ]

Robert, help me out here.

If you are working like us up in the trees, you use a workpositioning/treeclimbers harness. When shit hits the fan, you fall backwards with your body and you are not, as compared to a fallprotection harness kept upright.
Bare with me.
If you are kept in a upright position, your legstraps cut off the bloodflow of the artery's in your upper legs. THEN the harness suspention trauma starts to kick in because the blood from your legs is kept trapped there and can not reach your head.

Now fall back in a treeclimbers harness.
First, You will notice that you (within one minute) get to think you are in a very disscomforting position, but there are NO artery's blocked to and from your legs(the artery's run on the front/inside of your upper legs) because the harness doesn't choack them off. Second, your head is on the same level as the rest of your body, you know what, even a little lower. In your back you feel a terrible disscomfort, but the artery's run on the inside of your spinal collumn so they are not blocked. Your head leans all the way back so the tongue can't block the airflow and the brain gets all the best (blood).
If someone thinks you die of a head being the lowest part of the body, I think he will have a tough job telling al the yoga people to stop getting upside down.

Treeclimbers harnesses are no fall arresters and even though the are (at that moment) very discomforting to the victim they are not killing you.
 
Mark, go for the treefelling. I bet you there are lots of guys that miss the stick by more than they thought was possible.
While you are at it.
How about a spiking competition,
a rotating your sword (or blade or whatever you call it) of your chainsaw in the fastest time competition
or a setting up the GRCS onto the tree competition. /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Good luck to you all who are going to the ITCC.
 
Hi Wolter,
I can't say that I agree with all of your statements here,I agree that a work position harness without a top harness(which a number of people wear)is less likely to put pressure on the arterys on the inside of the leg providing the victim is hanging free and the upper body is inverted with the weight in the back support.A number of situations could result in an unconscious victim being held upright by a stem or branch.
I think that an unconscious victim hanging backwards with the neck in a position of extreme hyper-extension could quite easily swallow their tongue..and if you can find me a yoga person that can stand on their head while they are unconscious then I will agree with you.....

Didj
 
[ QUOTE ]
A number of situations could result in an unconscious victim being held upright by a stem or branch.

[/ QUOTE ]Can't argue on that one, but I can't think of any situation that supports a unconscious climber that way that he would be supported upright.


[ QUOTE ]
I think that an unconscious victim hanging backwards with the neck in a position of extreme hyper-extension could quite easily swallow their tongue

[/ QUOTE ]No you can't, unless that person has a deformation on the throat. Your head leand bacwards far enough so that your tongue physically can't reach the top of your mouth to block the airway. However a heavy helmet with a chinstrap can do the trick and close of the airway.


[ QUOTE ]
and if you can find me a yoga person that can stand on their head while they are unconscious then I will agree with you.....

[/ QUOTE ]I didn't mean the blocking of the airway but the bloodflow, even an unconsious yoga master that's been on his head for fourteen days will have blood running to his brain and will not die because of a lack of blood in his brain /forum/images/graemlins/spinrhead.gif
 
Now I may be wrong here, as I am no expert on suspension trauma, but here is what I remember reading on some other threads here at the Buzz. When lying unconscious in a standard tree climbing saddle a large portion of the bodies blood becomes sequestered in the legs. Because there is zero movement of the body, circulation in the legs slows dramatically. This means that the heart slows down and starts pumping less because it is encountering much lower blood pressures. The suspension trauma occurs when the body is brought to the ground and laid out/moved around. All the blood from the legs may instantly rush back into the bloodstream and overload the heart causing damage.

Hopefully I got that right.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hopefully I got that right.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually I hope for the patient's sake you are wrong.

Yes the bloodstream will slow down in the legs, but it will not stop running. Those harnasses where al the data comes from that circulates, where no treeclimbers saddles but safety harnasses. They will keep you upright and choak the artery's to your legs so there is almost zero circulation of blood. THOSE LEGS ARE THE LOWEST POINT OF YOUR BODY, PROBABLY WITH A HEAD LEANING TO THE FRONT (CHOAKING) because of the achorpoint on the back. The data on those saddles is used to scare us off, forgetting that it is a completely other harnass.


The point is I rather hang (if I have too) in a treeclimbers saddle where the circulation in the legs and in the head is in tact.

Thing is, more and more climbers use legstrap harnasses and not seat harnasses. I have no clue on how they choak of the legs, but I can imagine that there might be more of a problem.
 
Hi Wolter,
Sorry folks about hijacking this thread.
Maybe we should start a new thread for this topic.Last time I promise...
I think that leg loop saddles will increase the risk of HHS and to be honest I don't know many people who still use the sit saddles.Going back to blocking of the airway for a minute and maybe you can answer this question.I'm not a paramedic so I don't know:If the airway cannot be blocked by the tongue when the neck is extended why is it necessary after doing this,when giving mouth to mouth so important to pull the lower jaw forward before beginning
breathing.As far as I know this is to bring the pallette forward so the tongue is pulled out of the airway.I'm just making an un-educated guess here but if when the neck is hyper-extended there is no way the tongue can block the airway why is this deemed necessary,In every first aid course I've ever taken...
I'm not saying your wrong I just wonder way they train this

later
Didj
 
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