Need Some Opinions Here Guys

Tr33Climb3r

Tr33Climb3r

Participating member
Location
Wisconsin
Ok I am in a dilemma here on what to do with my education. I am currently at University of Wisconsin Stevens Point working on my Bachelors. I already have my associates in Urban Forestry Technology from Mid-State Technical College.

This is the thing I am going through...to get a bachelors you have to take so many pointless classes like CALC (which i am in now) and English (writing papers on pointless things, I could understand if it was all grammer but it is not). I am just getting frustrated with all this non forestry related stuff.

Ok now for my career plans...I want to eventually take over our two man family company and make it a 2-3 crew company with PHC.

So is this bachelors in Urban Forestry important? What my other plan is to go back to tech school to get an associates in Business Management. Because although I know I could run it the whole making it survive scares me....so will that degree help me more than the bachelors in Urban Forestry because really my education in arboriculture will continue with being an ISA Certified Arborist and all.

Only thing that is said around here is bachelors is good for a Government job...well that's not where I want to be because I have gotten a slight taste of it.

Sorry for the long post just wanted to give a background.

All the input is appreciated.
 
Casey,

A lot of doors are opened by having a degree, including graduate school where people get opportunities that just aren't available at the undergraduate level, like Forest Canopy Research (there's a professor at The Evergreen State College in Oly that has this). You have a good plan A, taking over the family business. What is plan B?

This door opening is not only true, to differing degrees, in getting a job, but also to personal life and social circles, as well.

Sometimes things are pointless/ seem pointless, like Calc, but something to remember is that not only does it teach you/ force you to teach yourself how to do the Calc problem, but also challenges you to think in different, maybe more complex ways.

English classes help you to become a better communicator. This can also help if you decide, let's say, to become active in forest preservation in your region, persuading people and gov't bodies to enact some measures.

I would suspect/ suggest that when you approach your customers on a bid, or after finishing a job and they are thanking you for a job well done, they will appreciate your level of dedication to your profession, and be more likely to recommend you, and have you back (if you can add some value to their end through knowledge about urban foresty, in addition to their individual ornamental tree in the front lawn, or whatever). In some regions, this is a good selling point.

How much more schooling do you have to complete? You will have to weigh that school expense, and opportunity costs with future possibilities.

Right now, I would be happy if I could land a good Urban Forester or other climbing arborist position within a municipality. Predictable hours, pay, benefits, retirement.

Working for someone else doesn't have to prevent your from having a small business on the side, especially if you hire a qualified staff.
 
I agree with the other comments about getting the degree. My one comment is that long term a business degree will probably take you further in the future as it covers any business . If you already hold tree certification to the level you think you need for the family business then the business quals could be the go .Good luck whatever you do ,but keep the brain working either way. Oh and the business stuff will have stupid papers to do as well .
 
tr33climb3r- I'll throw down, as I graduated with a degree in forestry from OSU a year and a half ago. I despised taking many of the 'core' classes and really thrived in the forestry/horticulture classes that I took. However, working in forestry and now the tree care industry, many of the classes from a broad range of course work have proven to be beneficial.

I sometimes consider the amount of on the job training I could have gained (4 years), while in school, but know in the long run it will prove to be a smart choice. While I love production climbing, I know that in 15-20 years I will probably want a plush office job or a more regimented schedule as southsound mentioned(as crazy as that sounds right now).

For me, I am working toward not only being skilled in the tree work aspect of the field, but also broadening my education and skill set that will open up different opportunities and allow me to succeed in the arboriculture industry. While your path and opportunities presented are different from mine, I would simply weigh the current and future possibilities and make the decision as a long term plan, not for what currently is in front of you. If I was in your position, I would consider following through with the degree and add a minor in business management. That will give you a solid business foundation. Many owners I know say to just learn the basics of business management, because learning on the fly is where it all happens...hope this is somewhat helpful!

-Ian
 
Go for both. It's all been said above. Math skills are a must for future opportunities. It is about thinking and problem solving skills, I've taken Calculus and found it help immensely in understanding physics concepts above the high school level. Though I don't actually perform computations with it, I can figure out problems that we face daily with the general concepts.

English writing skills are vital to a business owner, specially one with plans to expand to the degree you do. Remember, you are communicating in writing to people who have such skills. When they ask for a report or technical assessment or a business plan or even a memo, it is with the expectation that it will come to them in a professional format that they themselves have learned. Imagine how a well written proposal for a three year PHC program would be received by a corporation with large land holdings vs. a scribbled "quote" from a competitor?

All of this will help you read your customers better. Remember they are not just homeowners, they are educated and trained professionals often, who will appreciate your ability to communicate at their level. At some point you may decide to add consulting to your company's offerings and will be better prepared to make the leap.

Arboriculture is merely the technical skill, all the rest allows us to turn that into a successful career and business.
 
Oh, and Warren Buffet recommends that any graduate take a Dale Carnegie course in communications as he did. The value he places on it is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
 
Thanks all for the quick response. A couple other things to keep in mind is the money aspect. Continuing the way I am going is going to set me back $25,000 more than what I already have which is probably another $15-20,000. I am going on my 4th year of school and the money scares me. As for I am paying for all of my school out of my own pocket. I am going to owe the price of two cars coming out of school with just an arborist salary (lets face it guys it isn't what we deserve)
 
In an unrelated field... I was able to get a similar job to the one that I had, at a 60% pay increase, by having any bachelor's degree. Its an exception to the rule, but you will be open to lots more opportunities.

The business classes seem like a great option, though with the price of tuition, can you Audit the appropriate business classes, instead of taking them for credit. Lots cheaper.



College is getting more expensive by the day...the high cost of higher education.
 
Get the degree...whichever one you can in the shortest time. A business education would be invaluable since you have a foundation in arb work. You might be so far along in the arb/UF work that changing and becoming a fifth or sixth year senior is too expensive.

Once you're done with the degree, if you're light in the business classes you can always nibble away at one class a semester. That can be a long haul but it's what I wish that I'd done decades ago.

FWIW...Joe Hoffman and I were two of the applicants for Don Roppollos job...who got the job? Yup, he had the degree..and has done a WONDERFUL job there too!
 
Another recommendation to stick with it and get the degree. It sounds like you are pretty far along.

I remember splitting a room with nordic dave and lumberjack at the St. Louis ISA conference and I was in the middle of my summer Biochemistry course in the middle of my senior year (finished in the degree in the fall of 08). I can remember beating my head against the wall at night with stress from knowing I had a test to come back to and was ill prepared for. That feeling can be heavy, in fact I really still do have nightmares where I think I forgot to turn in a major paper and didn't get my degree, and it's been two years already!

But looking back at it, I'm really stoked I finished and didn't take the easy path. So many times I thought of quitting for one reason or another, but stick with it and it will reward you ten fold. FWIW, I'm now working as an arborist for the city and county and helping manage over 150,000 trees, including a lot of climbing and making a big difference in preserving beautiful heritage trees here in the tropics. Couldn't have made it here without a degree!

jp
grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Is this going to be your graduation year?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope I will have another full year after this one if I stick with the bachelors path in urban forestry
 
Hmmm.

I agree extra schooling isn't a waste, that's for sure and it will help out with plan B.

But I had the similar plan A.

Knew I wanted to partner a tree service or else own one all myself.

So I went to a 2 year forestry school and learned plenty of practical things. Adding that to my work experience growing up helping a family members tree service and got working.

The few business classes I took extra didn't help any in this business.

I started my own company at age 21 and have been doing it for 16 years now.

Running a business is very hard and stressful; but no one can argue that we aren't successful and a very well respected name. With the bad economy, we actually have been doing even better. We do not have a shortage of good devoted customers.

Anyway, I do think way to many people continue college way too long. I think some do it because they are good at school and are actually afraid of getting out in the work world.

I don't believe you are afraid, sounds like you would like to get out there.

I don't like all that debt you are running up.

If you truely think you will run that business and be successful.

Then maybe quite getting degrees and get doing the work.

Unless you are almost done, then finish.
 
Thanks for all the help guys...the stress is just difficult like some of you are saying...especially because I have 18 credits. I don't know what I am going to do. I will take all your advice...thanks so much
 
Think of your education like climbing, with no degree or extra education you only know pursik loops and basic climbing skills. With extra education you know srt,ddrt,and all the other get your butt from ground to top.
I have an engineer friend of mine said that the more pieces of paper that you can have from schools make you that more valuable to the market of jobs.

I am in my mid 30's and cut my college short to take care of my family, now having time to take classes and study foe ISA test is hard. Take care your education while you have time are doing it.
 
Finish the year or at least this semester and reevaluate then. UF may seem like a logical degree for a treeguy to get, but it has a lot of planning stuff that is not so relevant for most. Look at distance options.

Like Xman says (and as a paying parent myself of a senior who WILL graduate if he knows what's good for him) your numbers are pretty scary, but college loans are pretty low interest right?
 
Are you being trained for diagnosis and treatment, or other applicable things for your business? Can you build your company into municipal consulting in addition to the regular cut/ prune/ plant/ grind? You get paid more for what you know than what you can do, typically, and your body ages/ wears faster than your brain.

Usually the last year of college has the most important material.

You will only get out of it what you put into it. If you should continue, do whatever you can to integrate your school with real life experiences, shadow/volunteer/ intern with a local urban forester, etc.
 
If your family has a successful company now, you will build it in steps, so don't be scared. You will be trained by your family, and the important OJT that provides things that only work will let you learn.
 
There's an old saying from the logging camps. "A good logger never quits till the job's done."

I'm sure the boss came up with that one, but what the heck. It does feel good to finish a bad contract or education and you learn to appreciate the good times from the bad.
 
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