- Location
- Pukalani, Hawaii
im having a hard time when blocking down a leaning trunk. i have trouble getting back on to the top side of the lean after making my wedge cut. got any special tricks or advice that i can learn from?
need some help on leaning spars
- Thread starter Maui Palm & Tree Care
- Start date
- Location
- Hampton Roads,Va
Depending on how big the trunk is you can notch from the backside. Just take your time. After awhile it'll become second nature and safer than fighting to pull yourself around from the underside
Tony
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Lancaster, PA
What type of climbing system are you using?
How are you tied in?
I am assuming you are on hooks/spikes/climbers/etc.
Tony
How are you tied in?
I am assuming you are on hooks/spikes/climbers/etc.
Tony
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
I think it was here that I learned to choke the spar with my climbing system making it srt. This makes a decent dicey but it allows you to shift it to the side and that will enable you to work your way around without having you system shift whn you weight it.
.
An adjustable friction saver is good but I had a leaner not long ago that my AFS kept shifting as I tried to make the cut...it sucked.
I know there are some other options too.
Blocking down a leaner has always been one of the more challengeing asspects of removal....to me anyways.
I agree with tree bob on cutting from the front (reaching around) but for bigger wood...and a really accurate notch, I like top be facing the notch.
If something in the tree is too hard....move to a position that isnt.
Stay safe Josh
.
An adjustable friction saver is good but I had a leaner not long ago that my AFS kept shifting as I tried to make the cut...it sucked.
I know there are some other options too.
Blocking down a leaner has always been one of the more challengeing asspects of removal....to me anyways.
I agree with tree bob on cutting from the front (reaching around) but for bigger wood...and a really accurate notch, I like top be facing the notch.
If something in the tree is too hard....move to a position that isnt.
Stay safe Josh
- Location
- Asheville, NC
Wear gloves, hang your saw on your harness, grab your flipline, and step sideways while shifting the flipline with both hands and planting your feet good and hard. Practice keeping your hands off the tree, but rather on your flipline.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
TreeBobb is right, don't hurry, it's one of those situations that's tougher and slower than usual, don't expect to just chunk it down as fast as a vertical one.
It's all about positioning and getting enough practice to be good at it. The working around without touching the tree much is a good idea, I'm gonna try it.
Choked lifeline is how I do it, gives you something to oppose.
Spikes were hard for me to learn. I was a rock climber for a long time before ever spiking a tree and it was just weird climbing that way. Spike climbing is worth working at though. Treat spike climbing with the same respect as you do rope climbing, it's technical and practice is the only way to develop your technique. Since killing trees is the only good way to practice you have to practice while you work. Pay attention to everything you do and don't hurry... go slow to go fast.
It's all about positioning and getting enough practice to be good at it. The working around without touching the tree much is a good idea, I'm gonna try it.
Choked lifeline is how I do it, gives you something to oppose.
Spikes were hard for me to learn. I was a rock climber for a long time before ever spiking a tree and it was just weird climbing that way. Spike climbing is worth working at though. Treat spike climbing with the same respect as you do rope climbing, it's technical and practice is the only way to develop your technique. Since killing trees is the only good way to practice you have to practice while you work. Pay attention to everything you do and don't hurry... go slow to go fast.
- Location
- Bluffton, SC
I will choke my lanyard in an appropriate way and have it hold your weight on the high side of the tree and then lean into it while making the notch
boreality
New member
- Location
- boreal forest
The best is a second tie in on a tree behind the lean. Or avoid the underside if possible. Bypass cut smaller pieces that can be aimed with a push or rig them.
Moving back up with lanyard and spikes isn't that hard either. One of those things you figure out after flopping around for awhile.
I don't know your relationship to your employer and it may be a great situation. But if it isn't perfect and you could use a change you could consider another company that has an experienced climber that trains new climbers. Or at least sniff around cause if it's a really good guy he probably keeps his employees and rarely hires.
Keep the questions coming here, buying vidoes, books and formal training are good. But the best is to get paid and trained at the same time.
Moving back up with lanyard and spikes isn't that hard either. One of those things you figure out after flopping around for awhile.
I don't know your relationship to your employer and it may be a great situation. But if it isn't perfect and you could use a change you could consider another company that has an experienced climber that trains new climbers. Or at least sniff around cause if it's a really good guy he probably keeps his employees and rarely hires.
Keep the questions coming here, buying vidoes, books and formal training are good. But the best is to get paid and trained at the same time.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Can you give us some specifics on what you are dealing with, in this one, or various situations. Is it smooth bark or rough? What size pieces, rigged or not? Are they single bar width, or are you cutting your facecut and backcut from both sides?
Couple of thoughts, using the Undermine the COG sniped snap-cut (aka the Magic Cut-I like that name) means not having to get a perfect match on your two face cuts, as you are intentionally making a horizontal dutchman. This works out well if you don't need exact directional control, but you want it to rock off in one direction toward a LZ.
If you are rigging it, you don't need much directional control for blocks the way you do for a tight landing zone.
You can snap cut smaller pieces (not logs)with the holding wood running in line to the lean, then push. This means staying on the top side the whole time.
A SRT choked climbline is useful. It chokes only one direction, so you have to figure that out in advance, since you will be using it to block down removals, you will not need to reascent, so the F8 Revolver (or non-Revolver) system will be perfect if you don't have a GriGri (oh GG2 when do you come out?), Uni, I'D, etc.
You can also choke your rope lanyard in the direction opposite to the choked climbline with an SRT set-up for both.
You can keep your climbline choked at the top of the spar,with a running bowline with long tail for pulling it down after cutting the facecut, before cutting your back cut. Same with a choking ring and ring type of friction saver. ALWAYS CHECK THAT YOU HAVE PULLED YOUR CLIMBLINE DOWN FROM THE TOP OF THE SPAR BEFORE YOUR SAPWOOD KERF CUTS AND BACKCUT!!!!! Seems impossible to forget, but fatique, dehydration, hunger, rain, urgent need to use the bathroom can derail the train of thought. I guess people get used to tuning out the ropes in front of their faces. Disabling accidents/ deaths occur this way. Usually to people earlier in their climbing careers.
Those ninja hand climbing spikes are not talked about much, but are a secret weapon, just hard to run the saw. I keep mine on a lanyard attached to each wrist, so that I can shake them off and let them dangle when I need to cut. You wouldn't believe how these and the ninja flash/ smoke pellets amaze the customer.
Couple of thoughts, using the Undermine the COG sniped snap-cut (aka the Magic Cut-I like that name) means not having to get a perfect match on your two face cuts, as you are intentionally making a horizontal dutchman. This works out well if you don't need exact directional control, but you want it to rock off in one direction toward a LZ.
If you are rigging it, you don't need much directional control for blocks the way you do for a tight landing zone.
You can snap cut smaller pieces (not logs)with the holding wood running in line to the lean, then push. This means staying on the top side the whole time.
A SRT choked climbline is useful. It chokes only one direction, so you have to figure that out in advance, since you will be using it to block down removals, you will not need to reascent, so the F8 Revolver (or non-Revolver) system will be perfect if you don't have a GriGri (oh GG2 when do you come out?), Uni, I'D, etc.
You can also choke your rope lanyard in the direction opposite to the choked climbline with an SRT set-up for both.
You can keep your climbline choked at the top of the spar,with a running bowline with long tail for pulling it down after cutting the facecut, before cutting your back cut. Same with a choking ring and ring type of friction saver. ALWAYS CHECK THAT YOU HAVE PULLED YOUR CLIMBLINE DOWN FROM THE TOP OF THE SPAR BEFORE YOUR SAPWOOD KERF CUTS AND BACKCUT!!!!! Seems impossible to forget, but fatique, dehydration, hunger, rain, urgent need to use the bathroom can derail the train of thought. I guess people get used to tuning out the ropes in front of their faces. Disabling accidents/ deaths occur this way. Usually to people earlier in their climbing careers.
Those ninja hand climbing spikes are not talked about much, but are a secret weapon, just hard to run the saw. I keep mine on a lanyard attached to each wrist, so that I can shake them off and let them dangle when I need to cut. You wouldn't believe how these and the ninja flash/ smoke pellets amaze the customer.
i keep my ninja mask with me a all times in case i need to make a quick and covert getaway and ninja hand spikes are tha bomb. the smoke bombs really help when introducing yourself to the customer. step one ring the door bell step two hide around corner step three when customer opens door throw ninja smoke pellet and jump out with mask on step four take off mask and introduce yourself step five get up after being kicked in the nuts repeatedly by angry house wife and run away.
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
Oh Jeff.......
chris_girard
Branched out member
- Location
- Gilmanton, N.H.
[ QUOTE ]
You can keep your climbline choked at the top of the spar,with a running bowline with long tail for pulling it down after cutting the facecut, before cutting your back cut. Same with a choking ring and ring type of friction saver. ALWAYS CHECK THAT YOU HAVE PULLED YOUR CLIMBLINE DOWN FROM THE TOP OF THE SPAR BEFORE YOUR SAPWOOD KERF CUTS AND BACKCUT!!!!!/quote]
This is the way that I have been blocking down leaners for years. Gives the best position to make a face cut and is prety easy tock from. Also no fear of kickout either.
Like Sean says though, check that climbing line before making your backcut!
You can keep your climbline choked at the top of the spar,with a running bowline with long tail for pulling it down after cutting the facecut, before cutting your back cut. Same with a choking ring and ring type of friction saver. ALWAYS CHECK THAT YOU HAVE PULLED YOUR CLIMBLINE DOWN FROM THE TOP OF THE SPAR BEFORE YOUR SAPWOOD KERF CUTS AND BACKCUT!!!!!/quote]
This is the way that I have been blocking down leaners for years. Gives the best position to make a face cut and is prety easy tock from. Also no fear of kickout either.
Like Sean says though, check that climbing line before making your backcut!
- Location
- near ashville n.c
for me it depends on how big it is. if its bar width or less i just break cut em. stay on the high side and reach around and make you're cut a lil more than half way through, then make you're 2nd cut about 1" or so above you're first cut and overlap it a lil. then put you're saw back on you're saddle and grab the chunk and rock it back and forth a few times and it will break loose and you can push it wherever you want.
tomthetreeman
Participating member
- Location
- Rhode Island
[ QUOTE ]
for me it depends on how big it is. if its bar width or less i just break cut em. stay on the high side and reach around and make you're cut a lil more than half way through, then make you're 2nd cut about 1" or so above you're first cut and overlap it a lil. then put you're saw back on you're saddle and grab the chunk and rock it back and forth a few times and it will break loose and you can push it wherever you want.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this except my face cut will always be LESS than half, the backside cut a bit more.
I agree with the poster's aggravation, though, positioning on leaners is a bee-otch. Hello lower back pain!
-Tom
for me it depends on how big it is. if its bar width or less i just break cut em. stay on the high side and reach around and make you're cut a lil more than half way through, then make you're 2nd cut about 1" or so above you're first cut and overlap it a lil. then put you're saw back on you're saddle and grab the chunk and rock it back and forth a few times and it will break loose and you can push it wherever you want.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this except my face cut will always be LESS than half, the backside cut a bit more.
I agree with the poster's aggravation, though, positioning on leaners is a bee-otch. Hello lower back pain!
-Tom
- Location
- Pukalani, Hawaii
well i guess if seasoned pro's like you guys have a hard time with the same thing that makes me feel a whole lot better. it's just a tough task and no way around it.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
[ QUOTE ]
ALWAYS CHECK THAT YOU HAVE PULLED YOUR CLIMBLINE DOWN FROM THE TOP OF THE SPAR BEFORE YOUR SAPWOOD KERF CUTS AND BACKCUT!!!!! Seems impossible to forget, but fatique, dehydration, hunger, rain, urgent need to use the bathroom can derail the train of thought.
[/ QUOTE ]
Paolo and I talked about this practice. Choking off to the top of the spar for the face cut is outside of our usual muscle memory. It is TOO easy by the time the trunk is being chunked to have enough mental capacity to track this new stance.
Paolo shared his protocol for this process.
From the time that the climber chokes their line at the top of the spar and is prepared to descend a groundie is required to hold the climbers rope tail and pay attention to how the climber works. The groundie does nothing else. No brush moving, no talking, no nothing. At any time the groundie will let the climber know that they have forgotten something or might be making a fatal mistake.
Having two brains tracking the process reduces the chance of making a mistake. If the groundie doesn't have a whistle they can whip the rope onto the climber to get their attention BEFORE they make a mistake.
ALWAYS CHECK THAT YOU HAVE PULLED YOUR CLIMBLINE DOWN FROM THE TOP OF THE SPAR BEFORE YOUR SAPWOOD KERF CUTS AND BACKCUT!!!!! Seems impossible to forget, but fatique, dehydration, hunger, rain, urgent need to use the bathroom can derail the train of thought.
[/ QUOTE ]
Paolo and I talked about this practice. Choking off to the top of the spar for the face cut is outside of our usual muscle memory. It is TOO easy by the time the trunk is being chunked to have enough mental capacity to track this new stance.
Paolo shared his protocol for this process.
From the time that the climber chokes their line at the top of the spar and is prepared to descend a groundie is required to hold the climbers rope tail and pay attention to how the climber works. The groundie does nothing else. No brush moving, no talking, no nothing. At any time the groundie will let the climber know that they have forgotten something or might be making a fatal mistake.
Having two brains tracking the process reduces the chance of making a mistake. If the groundie doesn't have a whistle they can whip the rope onto the climber to get their attention BEFORE they make a mistake.
- Location
- ma
the hardest thing about leaning trees is,,,,,,there leaning,,
- Location
- South central KS
Like the groundie spotter idea but you need a groundie that has the knowledge and patience to handle that kind of responsibility. I'd have to keep H2O and a pack of camels near by or they would run off to the truck every 5.
