Need an SRT basal anchor

Scratch said:
I think I found an SRT basal anchor that I like and would like to see what you all think of it. I wanted an easy to setup, lowerable anchor, that uses minimal gear, required no cutting, and has plenty of rope available.
Once your climbing line is in the canopy, you tie the anchor end to the "tree" using a bi-directional running bowline and stopper knot.
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Then tie an alpine butterfly a foot or two up the tree from that.
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Next take your "rescue" line, lay it out, and using one end do the exact same thing below your climbing line. A bi-directional running bowline, with an alpine butterfly a foot or two up the tree from that.
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On the other end of the rescue line, tie a double fishermans knot and put a carabiner in it, then put in a figure 8 descender below that, soft lock it off, and tie a stopper knot after that. Also use another carabiner in the stopper knot for safety.
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Clip the end of the rescue line into the butterfly of the climbing line.
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Clip the F8 into the butterfly of the rescue line, make sure it's soft locked and clip the stopper knot carabiner into the butterfly too for safety.
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Now you're ready to climb.
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If you need rescue, unlcip the safety knot carabiner from the butterfly, cinch up the F8, and untie the bi-directional running bowline from the main line. The wraps should allow you slow and easy lowering until the rescue line tightens up.

I would think you could also use a GriGri instead of the F8, what do you think of that?
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There would be no loading and unloading of the GriGri during the climb, since it would be completely loose until you untied the main line which is only in the event of a rescue.

Any suggestions, or input on this setup?
Am I just way overthinking this whole basal anchor thing? Maybe I should just skip setting up the entire second rope thing, and have it in a bag ready to setup instead. I am just rec climbing...
Just getting anxious to get out since we got another 8 inches of snow today. I hate winter.
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Your setup is well thought out and it looks like it would work, but I do think it is too complicated. Just my opinion. Think about being in an emergency, panicky situation and not being the inventor of this system. Which knot do I untie first? What's next? Are you sure? Not to toot my own horn, but my super simple method with just 1 knot and 7000 feet of extra rope is really great, :ROFLMAO:.
 
Brocky said:
If you’re climbing solo, not sure someone coming along and finding you just hanging would be able to figure out what to do.
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I've tested my system MANY times and even kids under twelve have figured out how to do the rescue with no coaching. There's one stopper knot to untie and then the rack takes the load for lowering. It's been very intuitive for them to figure out.

Ove3r the many years that I've seen lowerable ground anchors most of them are wayyyyyyy to complicated. IN a tense situation I think that makes them dangerous.
 
Like Tom, that's the reason I like my system, its simple. Just remove the stopper past the blakes and then lower the climber by releasing the blakes a little at a time. The other thing I like about mine is it does not require using any of my sparse gear other than 6 ft of rope to make the blakes.
 
Bob Bob said:
Maybe this video will help. It shows a lower-able version using a figure 8, a ring, a couple biners and a short hank of rope. I've seen videos where a Grigri is used, but I don't think this is an approved usage of the Grigri since it is an assisted belay device not an auto braking decender like the Petzl RIG or ID. This distinction also "officially" rules out the Petzl Grigri and the Trango Cinch for RADS/YOYO but I used it that way for years...
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QTLA

Simple and easy to understand. Minimal gear required and no cutting of expensive climbing rope.
 
New2trees said:
I see your point, but to play devils advocate,

Why do you need a seat belt and air bags if your just going to the neighborhood shopping center?......99.9% chance you never will, but if you do it could be a lifesaver.
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You don't...just walk or ride a bike.
 
Also, as has been pointed out before many times, these basal rescue setups are all kinda academic if the "victim" is lanyarded in anyway or if the tree has a ladder branch structure all the way down.
Also, TCI in their material points out that rescue systems should be able to pass the "whistle test" - hands off if you hear the whistle and the victim will still not keep 'a comin' down. So, say a prussic is added to give this functionality. I personally would never want someone lowering me on just a figure eight unless I was darn sure of their abilities (and even then). Try it with a 220 lb bag of sand! In the Can Alpine Club they have had sessions where everybody can practice dynamic arresting a "big sandbag". The forces quickly build up to huge yanks on the system. Most people are really surprised the first time they practice catching the climbing dummy. Just sayin'.
And for use in the real world, Richard Mumford had picture and instructions for his basal setup plastic laminated and pinned to the tree with a big Step 1, Step 2, Step 3 etc. - this was in one of his YouTube videos somewhere.
Really important for me anyway, is to recognize that if you are rescuing someone from their own basal tie setup they've used to ascend SRT, they maybe haven't had a moving rope (or installed a friction saver) over the tie in point or limb they're anchored to. So in the type of rescue you propose, you will have a weighted moving rope moving over the limb/ tie point. Better be a good limb! - no problem with some large limbs in something like elms maybe but weaker wood or something like Doug Fir where the branches pop off with what seems like a scratch sometimes. Dunno. Things to consider along the way.
The UK Arboricutural Association in their Guide to Good Climbing Practice talks a lot more about going up to make the rescue using climber installed bomb-proof second rope - at which point Richard Hattier's vdeo makes a lot of sense of this:
https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-mAHrxkPsk
Cheers
(for good example of figure 8 basal anchor setup with prussik see pp 43 in TCIA Best Practices in SRT in Arboriculture)
 
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People put sooo much faith in F-eights...way too much. @ghostice shared an example of training with catching loads. In side by side tests I've seen from rescue and mountaineering Munters have more friction. There are other devices that develop more friction and are better suited for this application. No..I don't like F-eights
 
sure haven't. On the other hand I've heard of very few tree rescues of any sort. For a few years I taught a BUNCH of EHAP classes for TCIA. When I started talking about rescue I would always ask if anyone ever had to do a tree rescue. Not very often in all of the classes.

When I came up with mine I did it as an easy 'just in case'. Why not add a bit of an edge.

What has spun up are sooooo many complicated setups. Some that I have no hope of deciphering in a picture and some that I've seen taught or demo'd. It's not my style to critique in public so I've waited for a private time to chat with the 'inventor'. The passion to invent is high and my discussions have generally not been welcome. Oh well. :cry::cry:

My stance is that more time should be spent sending treeworkers to advanced or wilderness first responder first aid classes. Arbos are certainly skilled enough to setup rigging and lower a 250# load. Most workers are NOT trained in adequate first aid. My rant falls on deaf ears for the most part. Oh well. :cry::cry:
 
Tom I really support your point about directed first aid training for arbs. My own line of questioning has involved trying to get a definitive answer on current practice for suspension trauma. In spite of asking MD's and Fire/ Rescue/ Mtn Rescue locally I have pretty much drawn a blank. There also doesn't seem to be a whole lot in the medical literature (from NLM MedLine at least, on first look). If there are any Emerg MD's/ CTSP's/ CSP's/ CIH's etc. out there please weigh in. The advice I've found is really quite conflicting.

However, there is work like this too (currently presented at conferences/ perhaps available in conference proceedings but outside of US peer reviewed med literature?):
https: //www.camp-usa.com/safety/technical-info/suspension-trauma-research/
 
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rope-a-dope said:
@Scratch
lowerable basal anchor=can of worms
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I guess you're right!
I think I'll probably just do a standard basal anchor, throw in an Alpine Butterfly and let whoever is getting me down figure out the way they want to do it. I suppose the chances of ever needing to be rescued is extremely slim anyways.

It was still fun to setup and play with though!
 
Yes, as you can tell, lots of ideas start flying around with climbers' bottom-of-the-bag gear. I have tried lowering someone (non emergency) with their trunk wraps tied mid line. It works fine, but to anyone else (not trained) it looks like a huge wad of rope tangles! I would have a hard time trusting even my competent coleagues bringing me down like a raw crotch rigged branch.
 
Yes...suspension trauma or harness hang syndrome isn’t talked about but is likely part of any ropework rescue. At times like this I wish I had a timeline for when I stumbled onto something. This was a topic I found close to 20 years ago. It became a thread on the ISA forum. Not much known then and little more is standard now
 
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