natural crotch rigging?

T

tophopper

I do quite a bit of it, personally i feel its much faster than using a pulley on every cut. I will use the pulley if I know the same gin will be utilized for the whole tree, or if there is a crotch lacking, or if I know the load may need to be hoisted upward after cutting.
Just curious how many others still rig from crotches or do you use pulleys more than 90 % of the time?
 
I still use natural crotches. I think that it's a mistake to avoid them all of the time. I tend to use blocks on any removal with more than one or two pieces to lower, especially when they may be large pieces. There are a lot of reasons to use blocks but a really strong one is to preserve the lowering lines better. The heat developed from one large section being lowered in a natural crotch will damage a line.

A lot of times I'll still use a natural crotch to re-direct a load even when I have a block or two in the tree. If you work like I do, no blocks would be very difficult on the ground worker too.
 
Most of the removals I do involve roping some brush and chunking or flopping the wood. I almost never use pulleys for roping brush unless I need to rope out half the tree or more. I always use a block or pulley when roping wood. Like Mark said, it's really hard on the ropes and you can trash a rope rigging down one big chunk on a natural crotch.

I try to always use pulleys when roping out pine trees because the sap is nasty and can render a rigging rope just about useless.
 
I almost always use blocks and clevises for two reasons. One is that it saves on the lowering lines and two is that the amount of friction in the system is almost always the same and my ground guys do a better job of lowering the limbs and logs the way that I want them lowered. Also I have found that it is easier to train new ground workers to rope well when the rope is set up with blocks and lowering devices than with natural crotches and the trunk to wrap on.
 
I agree using blocks is better for the ropes and I have several ropes that only get used through blocks. but I also have several "burn" ropes which are almost exclusively used in natural crotches. Since most of my lowering lines are downgraded climbing lines, I still manage to get a long life out of a rope. I find the added friction useful, but for heavy loads which require wraps i will always have a porty set up-- wrapping around trunks is a pain and too time consuming. For a typical removal which requires roping i will not use a pulley at all until I get into blocking wood and usually by then I can either drop out chunks or flop the trunk. on a more technical tree which may require lifting and such, or a tree with a strong prominent lead for a gin, then I will hang a block. I was just curious, i know guys who never use blocks and guys who always use them. I just think its so much quicker than using a block for every cut. To me that is over rigging.
 
For me, the type of rigging point used depends on the situation. I have used a block for 1 cut and justified using it. I have rigged using a natural crotch while going up a tree, then, set a pulley to finish the rigging. Load line reduction and random rigging points are my primary reasons for using pullies.

Joe
 
Today i just cut a false croth in a branch and lowered it with a marl and running bowline (real fast ) the only reason being it woulda been a pain in the a*s to set it on the ground(with the crane) , log and brush.I couldn't cut a deep enough crotch or it would have lifted, so the ability to place a lowering point anywhere in a tree is priceless. Glad I know the old school but the new school is on point!Today the old school sucked , burned my rope because I now the old way and I was too ignorant to wait for someone to tie on a pulley(pin). Got the loot though , job CASHED!
 
i almost always use pulleys cause i try to pick a high king post and rig my gins to be supported by that. my guys would get tired just pulling the rope back up. (still do some times:) ) on some trees im through 3 and 4 pulleys! but i will on occasion run through a crotch if its just 1 or 2 small pieces
 
I have a ring on ring Buckingham false crotch that I use for most small loads. It doesn't take anything to set and can be retrieved. Redis will be natural most of the time.

Tom
 
good idea tom,- it never occurred to me to use a ring on ring for light rigging. I think I have one somewhere(at the bottom of the bag)
 
i think that a pulley also allows more line area to take the shockloading; allowing elasticity to work for you in that sense. But, also then; raises the loading on the support.

Pulley redirect systems are easier to pretighten; whereby frictional redirects are easier to get load to self tighhten the line by flexing away from support on hinge; and having a smaller amount of line to pre-stretch in the action with the friction barrier/buffer so close.

Sometimes i place a sling and carabiner on the back side of a high spar, and lace rigging line thru carabiner, bending around spar to route to another high point, so bend in line won't be sharp. This allows more support than a lower crotch, and is adjustable to lessen or increase loading taken on byu this part of the system. With a high angle support that is very strong; pretty small branches can then be imbued with brake force and support of the main, as the minor small branch directs to sweet spot/ 'box' to deliver. Usually anymore this too is just a loopie/sling and carabiner; so some smoothness, some friction, but heat dissipation that wood doesn't give. The spread points of firction allow more dissipation of heat, rather than buildup too i think

Friction points can't be pretightened by standard line tensioning; but, between any 2 points is a sweating in oppurtunity of high leverage in trade. Sweating more purchase out of the line by bending, then ground taking leveraged purchase across friction 'buffer'/'barrier'; doesn't quite get it with pulleys. A pulley allows the line to re-euqlize the tension i think; whereby grabbing the purchased line across the friction 'barrier'; maintains the purchase of line, that makes the other side (load side) tighter.

i consider most lines a wearable resource, and go mostly with natural crotches; but try to limit impact, with the capabilities of such a system.

Anlother way to get delivery to a certain point is in the middle of a 2/1, or a tag line , that load can be moved around betweent he points of the 2/1 (etc.) by ground krew.

Or something like that
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Blocks, Pulleys what are they? Well thats what my ground guys say. Since working at ASPEN last year I got to see the correct way to do lots of rigging. But my boss is just way too old school, he would rather burn through line after line than springing for the right gear cause thats what he is used to. Harder on the guys ,DOOM on the lines. I guess I'll have to get them myself sooner or later.
You truely can't teach an old dog new tricks. That is until a rope snaps under load one day then DOOM on the whole crew.
 
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no blocks would be very difficult on the ground worker too.

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How can blocks be difficult on a ground worker? (Does this mean figuring out the weight, and friction, and how to let it come down nice?)
 
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