Mistakes & consequences for employees.

theXman

theXman

Branched out member
Location
MD, USA
How do you owners or crew leaders deal with really stupid mistakes that employees make. Besides firing them?

Example:

Three of my guys take an job description estimate/invoice to go do a simple brush pile without me. (should have taken 45 minutes on the brush pile). Two of them are Americans and one new Latino worker. One American has been with me 3 years, the other is 2 years.

They had trouble finding the house. (Although, I had none when I made the estimate.) The house did have a number on it and they had the correct address on the estimate paper. The work description said brush pile of bradford pear, all leaves brown. Also a small amount of dogwood in the pile.

They finally saw a brush pile on that street. They proceed to chip the pile and no one looks at the house number. They get almost through the pile, over an hour, and one guy notices, hey, this isn't bradford pear so they then look at the house number. Oh, no. WRONG HOUSE! So then, they told me they were almost done the pile anyway so they decided to finish it, they didn't feel like they could leave it not finished. WHAT! YOU ARE DOING A BRUSH PILE FOR FREE ON COMPANY TIME AND YOU DIDN'T FEEL LIKE YOU COULD STOP.

The home owner comes out at the end and said he'd been especting a tree company to come by and do it, so he thought it was them. He gave them $40.00. Guess it made his day.

I figure these guys wasted about 2 hours on trying to find the house, then chipping the wrong pile, then having to dump.

Meanwhile, I'm waiting at another job for them, along with another employee. Just waiting for them to show up so I can get climbing gear and start the next job.

I figure they cost the company about 2 hours for 5 men. Add up the hourly wage, plus match social security, plus add the 30% for Injured Workers and add in about $8.00 fuel total and those 2 hours cost the company $192.48. Subtract the $40 payment, and company is in the hole $152.48.

I'd like to hear what you all feel about this.

I was actually expecting the men to speak up and say, "you know what, that was SO stupid, subract two hours of our pay, sorry". But they never did.

Why should an employee get paid for time when they are actually costing the company, with something really stupid?

It's not like it was a skill that they haven't mastered yet. It's finding an address. And there was two men that should have been able to do this.

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Other mistakes:

2. what do you do for damage to trucks, equipment and saws? Like if they employee drives over a saw. Or if they can't back up worth a crap and backs into a stone wall or something?

(on that subject; How come hardly no one can back something up these days? My 15 year old cousin (that works on the farm) can back things up and with trailers better than any of my adult workers.)

3. What about if you got fined by OSHA for an employee not wearing their saftey gear? Even though you insist it must be worn and you supply all the right gear? I'm thinking the employee should have to pay half the fine if they blaitantly didn't wear the items. That way it effects them as well.

What do you all think?
 
Sounds like the mistake may have been made by he who did the hiring.

If it smells like sh@t, 1st place to look is your own pants before checking the crew.

Dealing with labor is a PITA, that is a big part of why I stepped away from tree work.

As far as things not going right, consider that large companies manage for profit over a year or quater, and not for a day.

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I'm not sure what the complaint is?

They sound like a normal tree crew to me..
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I'm sure some days they do good.
 
Do they ever come in "Under' an estimated job, Is the profit margin greater
than you expected. Do they show up regularly. Chalk it up. Are your trucks below CDL requirements? To get mine. I had to prove to the State trooper that I could back a trailer. I do agree that finding the correct address is important. But for 152 bucks, I definately wouldn't chase any one off. This is just an opinion not meant to offend.
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If they are otherwise good employees just let it go. Everyone makes even dumb mistakes once in a while. Do you split profits with them when they come in under estimate or when you have a busy week?

Anyway, using your numbers of 192.48 for 10 man hours and then subtract 30% for the Workmans comp, 12.5 for social security match and the 8 dollars for gas, you are getting guys for around 10 bucks an hour, which sounds pretty cheap to me. I would be happy to have reliable guys with an occasional screw up for $10 an hour.
 
They are all great people and good workers.

It's just sometimes they have their head up their butt. Like anyone can. But I have less an less tolerance for veteran guys messing up I guess. That's my biggest problem. If you've been doing this 2 or 3 years, you should not be making some of the same mistakes you did your first year of work. (this address thing was a first, I'm not referring to that).

But, having your head up your butt can be a dangerous thing in tree work, not just a non-productive day.

Good point Roger M. Yes, if we do a job faster than estimated, they do get bonuses for the greater profit margin.

I do try to run things very fair.

Also: If we are getting paid well for emergency work; like a tree on a house or other structure. I estimate the job charging time and a half. I therefor pay the employees time and a half (not just for overtime).

So I guess it should work the other way as well.

Also: If I ever get a tip, I usually split it evenly with the guys or give it all to the guys.

We get along well.

I just had a problem with why should you get paid for the time if what you are doing is taking money from the company? Time to time I get stressed about making a profit and with some new huge payments coming up, I'm a bit stressed I think.

We had a talk today. It was decided that if there is a really really stupid mistake, then the company would split the loss with them. Example, two hours wasted.... Get paid for one hour, lose one hour. Seems fair, especially when they get paid bonuses when a job goes faster than estimated.

KevKnep, pay range goes from $8.22 to $20.00 per hour right now. I'm not the $20 per hour either, I only get $13.

A long time ago, I remember a stupid mistake I made while working for someone. I knew that my mistake was going to cost that company. So I told the owner to just keep my whole paycheck for that week. I really meant it and I would have felt better if he had kept it, but he refused.
 
RE: OSHA fines; if use of PPE is strictly written in your policies and you get fined........ they get suspended without pay on a building scale, 3rd strike = termination.

Responsibilty flows uphill. Sad but true.
 
I'm seeing alot of companies suspending employees without pay to try to make sure they understand the consequences of messing up. I had a relative get two weeks off with no pay when he forgot to tarp a load of scrap metal he was hauling. Seemed a little excessive to me, but the company was apparently getting hit with fines and needed to make a point.

Splitting the profits and emergency pay like you do is very generous, I would hope the guys understood that.

An occasional mistake I can understand, but if the veteran guys keep making dumb mistakes, I guess you need to do something to wake them up.
 
We recently set up our supervisor on a $500.00 dollar month business and safety bonus and we deduct from there. RE: stupid mistake charge them $100.00 light mistake $50.00 etc what ever is left he splits with his crew at the end of the month. This is just one way we try and control the mistakes. If we pull the whole $500.00 away someone gets terminated. This is in its trail stage for now.
 
[ QUOTE ]
They are all great people and good workers.

We had a talk today. It was decided that if there is a really really stupid mistake, then the company would split the loss with them. Example, two hours wasted.... Get paid for one hour, lose one hour. Seems fair, especially when they get paid bonuses when a job goes faster than estimated.





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I think this is the most important. I f they are generally good guys....talk to them and ask for suggestions from them as to what they would do.

Remember though it could be why they arent the boss.. I just bought a gps navigation system to avoid this(I hope) I have run in to this quite a bit.
Its good to look at the whole picture not just one day but it shouldnt be ignored either. Try to figure out how not to repeat situations.
Im no expert and I have alot of this to figure out too. Just my thoughts.
 
Suspension idea not my own, nor do I have to use it. My guys are very diligent. I heard that the city does that. Worker w/o chainsaw protection = suspension. Its part of their policy book, and it gets them out of MOL fines, especially if there is a subsequent injury. It doesn't however get them off the hook from a WSIB policy increase. Actually what I was told was that it becomes very awkward for the employee to get money out of WSIB for having an accident which was caused by a policies and procedures violation (and subsequent suspension), they eventually get it, but have to go through a series of appeals.
 
You can have anything in your policy and procedures manual but you must ensure that the employees are made aware of it and sign off. Presenting the book is not enough.

As for chainsaw protection, under the logging regulations Ontario OH&S Act and Regulations) there is no call for chainsaw pants. You have to drag up the abrasion protection clause. Here is a good example of where the employer must lay out policy, instruct employees and enforce it with the sequential discipline program.
 
Whatever policy/procedure that is adopted for a company MUST be looked at by an employement attorney. You could setup a consequence that is illegal in your state. That would cost the employer a LOT of money.

Take notes and have a stern meeting...eye to eye. Don't spend too much time discussing what happened. Spend the time working on ways that it won't happen again. Document all shortcomings in case there is a need to justify termination.

'Fining' employees is generally not allowed by state laws. They aren't partners in the company. I always told my guys that I covered any shortcomings or damages and would share some of the profits from jobs that came out under expenses. There was no standard formula for sharing the wealth though.
 
Another emplyee and I had a pretty stupid mistake a while back that ended up costing the company. Our boss sat us down and said... "What did WE do wrong" (little different, but you get the point) He went through the things leading up to the accident (involving everyone, not just us two) trying to figure out why it happened, not just going over the fact that him and I screwed up. We knew we did something stupid, there was no point in kicking us around about it. Instead we talked about things that should have gone different hopefully to stop it from happening again. Gave me a lot of respect for him in how he handled the situation and makes me want to work harder for him, but that again was one accident where we are both otherwise good workers. I agree completely if it is habitual, get rid of them, if it is once in a while with otherwise good workers, talk about it, get everything clear with everyone and move on.
Also, imo, if you are going to be really pissed about it, your probally better of venting on here or to someone else and then going and talking to them. Keeping your head with them will keep them respecting you, which is important.
 
Was thinkin bout this today and came up with another reason to keep your head about things when they go wrong. Makes it more likely they will come to you when there is a problem down the road. If they know they will be treated fairly they will be willing to ask you when something isn't going right and get everything straight, instead of just guessing what should be done and hoping for the best. I have a good example of this if you don't get it, but figured between this post and the other I have said enough.
 
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