Look where you're going

Treespotter

Treespotter

New member
Location
Houten, The Netherlands
Look where you\'re going

Today one of the jobs was pruning a beech tree... Yes we did, but allmost didn't.

I installed the footlock line in the crotch of a 4 inch branch right next to the trunk. My buddy was going into the tree and I was installing my footlock strop on the same line. When my buddy got to the anchorpoint he started ##**$! (in a frienly way) and started the undercut in the branch that I placed the footlock line in!!!

IT WAS DEAD!!!!

This was the first and hopefully last fuckup this year.

Take this as a warning guys, with all the leaves back on the tree this dead branch and the branchtips growing into an other branch it was difficult to see the quality of the anchorpoint branch.

By the way, afterwards one my way up I skidded down the footlockline with a slipping knot. Lucky day? /forum/images/graemlins/twak.gif

Wolter
 
Re: Look where you\'re going

Do you bounce test your TIPs? If one end of the doubled rope is tied off and the other end is bounced you'll generate a much higher load on the TIP.

It's good to hear that all you got was a lesson today...and went home walking!
 
Re: Look where you\'re going

[ QUOTE ]
Do you bounce test your TIPs?

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Yes Tom we did, and the branch only died back this winter. It was firm enough but dead and we didn't realize that after we got in. But we still can /forum/images/graemlins/pbj.gif

Wolter
 
Re: Look where you\'re going

I know the feeling of realizing your tie-in branch isn't exactly what you thought it was...I was climbing a red maple and when i got to the top I look at the crotch and associated braches and realize...This is one of the only branches that doesn't have buds. Just like yours it was freshly dead (oxy moron?). Most of the pressure from my line was straight down the leader and not on this dead branch but It still caused me to do some extra pre-climb recon on the branches I'm using. Its another moment In life I chalk up to a learning experience. Thats why these things happen. They keep us on our toes and safety concious.
 
Re: Look where you\'re going

A year ago I was pruning a 60´ triplestemmed tuliptree in Bergen. Having finished the first stem I swung over to the middle stem 2mtrs above a codominant union and started to make a new anchorpoint. Luckily I looked down for a moment and discovered that there was a crack in the union below that was open and I could see the movement I made to the stems make the crack open and close. Man was I scared! I hadn´t noticed a thing until I saw the crack smiling at me with fresh white wood.
Always watch where you´re going.
Svein
www.hogstogrydding.no
/forum/images/graemlins/ahhhhh.gif
 
Re: Look where you\'re going

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Enlighten me on "bounce test your TIPS"

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Once you get your rope set in the tie in point TIP, you need to test to make sure it's going to be strong enough to hold you. If you climb in traditional DdRT, doubled rope technique, you'll have the TIP isolated. Grab both ropes and give them a yank. Next, grab up a little higher and bounce your body weight on the rope. This shock loads the TIP multiplying the load. When you do this, don't look up incase a piece of bark or limb is broken off.

If you want to increase the load on the TIP, anchor one end of the rope to the base of the tree. Now bounce the single rope again. This will increase the load on the TIP from a factor of 2 while hanging and multiple factors when you bounce.

If you want to test more, have someone else grab on the rope. By doing this, even if you hang, you're multiplying the load. If the TIP breaks, you'll only fall on your butt.

When I was in California climbing a large redwood we needed to test a rope set before ascending. The rope disappeared up into the crown so we had no clue if it was going to slip or break a limb. Three of us grabbed the rope and got a good bounce going. The three of us probably weighed a total of over 500# standing around. By bouncing we put probably at least a shock load over 2000# We all felt comfortable with the test.
 
down will come cradle and all

At our last gathering we had a great reason to bounce test. The TIP was not visible at all and on the second test it all came crashing down. Of course the quick action to clear out of ground zero was most effective due to the fact that you never tie yourself in on your bounce test. The tester had his foot in on stirrup of an ascender set so when he heard breaking wood he could get clean out before the brutal impact. Remember that you may test 100's of times and never break wood but I would rather not get tangled up underneath when the bough breaks and down will come cradle and all.

see you at the top,
Dan
 
Re: Look where you\'re going

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Enlighten me on "bounce test your TIPS"

[/ QUOTE ]

By bouncing we put probably at least a shock load over 2000# We all felt comfortable with the test.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have problems with using a climbing rope that is abused like that. Sure the limb holds.........but now you're stuck with an abused climbing line.

Dan
 
Re: Look where you\'re going

Hmmm...I would never count that as abuse. My climbing partners sure didn't either and none of us are rookies.

Maybe you misunderstand. My calculations are for 100% effeciency. This isn't a reality since the rope was woven through limbs and there was plenty of friction. The reality, is that the TIP supported three big guys, I was the smallest, bouncing on the TIP. In use, it only needed to support one climber at a time. The load is on the limb, but halved on the rope since one end is anchored.

How would you suggest checking a TIP in these conditions? Setting a lower, visible, TIP is not an option in this case.
 
Re: Look where you\'re going

[ QUOTE ]

I have problems with using a climbing rope that is abused like that. Sure the limb holds.........but now you're stuck with an abused climbing line.

Dan

[/ QUOTE ]

One way round that problem is to install a test line, load test it to 2000lbs or whatever you feel is necessary and then replace it with your climbing line. A bit long winded and I can't imagine anybody doing that.
 
Rock a bye baby...

http://www.rhymes.org.uk/hush_a_bye_baby.htm

With all of the friction and stretch in the rope I have to wonder how much of a load was actually put on the rope. It's very unlikely that I would ever take along a test rope for a wilderness climb. Packing in all of the gear is heavy enough.

YOu got me thinking so I did a little research. Since we were climbing on NE KMIII which has a breaking strength of 7,500#, I feel that we were still within the SWL of the rope, even with two Vikings and a skinny Minnesotan bouncing on the rope :) SWL is suggested by the manufacturer. That is the guideline that they set for the use of the rope. Don Blair wrote about design factors in Arborist Equipment. I wish the my book was at hand, but it's buried away in storage. The ropes we use now are so strong. I trust that there is plenty of strength in the ropes. The KM III is rated by the NFPA as a two-person recue rope. Of all the rope industry standards, I think that the NFPA is the most conservative.

What we have to remember all of the time is that the TIP is the biggest unknown that we deal with in our climbing systems. Testing the TIP should be done every time. I wonder how many climbers bounce test their TIPs. My bet wouild be a very low percentage.
 
Re: Rock a bye baby...

I try to set my TIP where I can see it and then after boucing on it use my bino's to have a close look if I am still unsure.How many of you guys carry a set on Binos in the truck??

Didj....
 
Re: Rock a bye baby...

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Als antwoord op:</font><hr />
I try to set my TIP where I can see it and then after boucing on it use my bino's to have a close look if I am still unsure.How many of you guys carry a set on Binos in the truck??

Didj....

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Only for friendly neighbours daughter peeking in theire bedroom from 100feet

/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forum/images/graemlins/dancing2.gif
 
Re: Rock a bye baby...

Hey Tom,

If I remember right 1/2 inch KMIII is rated at 10k in white and 9k colored. Mine is orange. In the late eighties all I climbed on was 1/2 inch KMIII with a split tail prussik loop of 3/8 KMIII. Buy the spool it was as cheap as High Vee.
 
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