Lanyard Friction

opposablethumb

opposablethumb

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I'm trying to optimize my lanyard setup. I like to climb with a long lanyard (15') and want to upgrade to 20'. I prune mostly, and am rarely flipping up a trunk. I use it like a second, small climbing line a lot while moving around at the edge of the canopy. On my climbing line, I always use a Buck ring&ring friction saver. Since I go to the effort to do that, it seems to me that I need to be consistent with my lanyard and somehow reduce the friction between my rope and bark tissue - seems like due diligence.

Has anyone solved this problem? Do the cordura sleeves do the trick? I've even thought about carrying a really small ring and ring friction saver on my saddle just for the lanyard - like 10-12" or something, but I'd also like to minimize my "jingle factor", as everything on my saddle likes to reach out and snag epicormic growth or other twiggy stuff.

And while I have your attention, I'm trying to figure out a really lightweight rope to use since I carry such a long lanyard. Thought about 10mm Bee-line, but I'm trying to keep as much Technora out of my system as possible. Would Samson's Prusik Cord be a workable option?
http://www.samsonrope.com/index.cfm?ind=16&app=40&rope=451&inst=1
It's cheap, polyester, small diameter (lightweight) and meets the 5K breaking strenght requirement. I'm going to get some 5mm New England Tech Cord for an adjust hip prusik, so I think it would be compatible with teh 3/8" diameter.

Man, this post turned longer than I meant it too. Sorry - thanks for reading!
 
To your first question, I have a short piece (11-12") of 1/2" extra flexible liquid tight conduit as a sleeve on my lanyard, works great. The conduit has a metal wrapped core and caps on the end, nice and smooth on the rope. this particular sleeve has lasted at least two years with fairly heavy use:

Lanyard with sleeve
4615556045_0248f8706e_z.jpg


Same lanyard implemented cinched
5174280993_455f7439d3_z.jpg


The sleeve is VERY good on conifers, keeps pitch off the rope and out of the hitch. Also great on thin-barked species like beeches. PM if you'd like more info on the conduit spec.

To your second question, I like Bandit (or Blaze) for my lanyard, nice and light but easy enough to grip. Velocity would be good too. I've found 20 ft. to be a bit much, shortened it down a couple years ago 15 ft. has worked well for any situation so far.
-AJ
 
I have used the cordura sleeving on my lanyard before, even just 1 inch webbing, works fine.

I would go with Blaze, my favorite, or something thin like velocity, maybe even some 7/16 KMIII or HTP, pretty thin to the touch. Not that the samson prussik cord wouldnt work, but i think it would pick a bit more than a chunk of rope in that usage. IMHO
 
I use a long lanyard on trims also. Velocity 20' to 25' with a VT for an adjuster. I keep the excess length in a slipped daisy chain configuration. This is a great setup that is both light and compact.
In a shared load setup as in most redirects, try using your lanyard SRT. This will not only stop bark damage but gives you twice the usable lanyard length.

Dave
 
On my longer lanyards I use a piece of 1" webbing and it works fine to help with friction and also keep sap off. The only downside is it limits the small end of your lanyard adjustment. I find about 30" of tubing works well for me. My lanyards are either Tachyon or Poison Ivy so the protector bunches up at the spliced working end. To solve the problem I just wrap the lanyard once or twice then clip to the saddle.

BTW I change the color of the webbing so I can tell which lanyard is how long

Tony
 
Great stuff everyone. Thank you.
"Treebuzz: The Helpful Place"

I got the flu, so I have plenty of time right now to ask some follow-up of questions:

Moss -
I like your conduit sleeve - very cool. I'd love to get the specs if you have a moment. Not knowing what that material feels like, is there a chance that the plastic of the sleeve digs into the bark when the lanyard is loaded? I can see how it does a great job of protecting the rope, but I wonder if a cordura/nylon sleeve would be softer. I prune A LOT of Acer rubrum, so I'm trying to tread as lightly as possible on the thin bark.

Also, I know you'll have a good answer for this one, so take the question as coming from a 'noob and not a challenge...In the picture where your using the lanyard SRT, what concerns are there that the 'biner would be loaded improperly when it is choked up against the branch like that? Would it also work to clip the biner into a mid-line clove hitch on the lanyard several inches away from the branch, thereby keeping everything in proper alignment? And might a mid-line clove hitch serve the same function for an SRT set-up as the small, second prusik on Teufelberger's CE Lanyard?

Shawn -
I have an ignorant question - what does it mean for a rope to "pick"?

All - I currently use Blaze for my lanyard - it's great, but it's time to replace it. Would a 3/8"(10mm) rope like Samson's Kernmantle meet the ANSI Z133 standards for a lanyard? Would it function ok? Not for the friction hitch adjuster, but for the actual lanyard...
http://www.wesspur.com/rope/samson-static-kernmantle-rope.html

I'm really trying to go as light and simple as possible, given my physique, which I will keep to myself. Let's just say I would be in the featherweight class...
boxing.gif
 
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On my longer lanyards I use a piece of 1" webbing and it works fine to help with friction and also keep sap off. The only downside is it limits the small end of your lanyard adjustment. I find about 30" of tubing works well for me. My lanyards are either Tachyon or Poison Ivy so the protector bunches up at the spliced working end. To solve the problem I just wrap the lanyard once or twice then clip to the saddle.

BTW I change the color of the webbing so I can tell which lanyard is how long

Tony

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I do the same thing. My lanyard is 18' long (7/16's" orange KM3), with a 20" sleeve (1" blue tube webbing). I use New England's 5mm tech cord (5,000 lb. ABS) for my hitch on the lanyard, which doubles as the clip in point when I use it in an SRT configuration.
 
[ QUOTE ]
In the picture where your using the lanyard SRT, what concerns are there that the 'biner would be loaded improperly when it is choked up against the branch like that? Would it also work to clip the biner into a mid-line clove hitch on the lanyard several inches away from the branch, thereby keeping everything in proper alignment? And might a mid-line clove hitch serve the same function for an SRT set-up as the small, second prusik on Teufelberger's CE Lanyard?

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Carabiner manufacturer wouldn't recommend it, there is enough support/branch diameter so the carabiner can't actually bend. I've been doing this for awhile, not seeing anything negative happening to the biner. Someone posted an excellent video showing an alloy carabiner clamped in a vice and hammered until breaking from the side, it had to bend over quite a bit before it began to fail. In the photo you can see there's nowhere for the biner to go to bend. That said use any technique like that at your own risk, use your good judgement.

Yep the new Teufelberger lanyard setup is excellent, it is the bulletproof way to cinch a lanyard. Other climbers have simply made a slip knot and clipped into it.

When I cinch it I'm not going to be putting myself in a situation to shock load the lanyard. The reason I posted the photo is to show the the sleeve is not a problem when I want to cinch.
-AJ
 
[ QUOTE ]
I like your conduit sleeve - very cool. I'd love to get the specs if you have a moment. Not knowing what that material feels like, is there a chance that the plastic of the sleeve digs into the bark when the lanyard is loaded? I can see how it does a great job of protecting the rope, but I wonder if a cordura/nylon sleeve would be softer. I prune A LOT of Acer rubrum, so I'm trying to tread as lightly as possible on the thin bark.

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The exterior is vinyl, it's very easy on the bark, on very soft barked trees (Cucumber Magnolia for example) it will compress the soft outer bark but anything will.

PM your address and I'll send you one.
-AJ
 
I agree with moss's above post about the bend radius on a biner choked to a branch. I also have been doing this for quite some time and have never had an incident that has made me question the setup. You have to get down to a small diameter branch nefore I think it would come into play at all.

As far as the "picking" question, that means that a cover strand would get cought on bark and pull out slightly, "picking" it out from the surface of the rope. On 24 and 16 strand ropes, not too likely to happen. I have had one of my favorite 12 strand tenex slings pick pulling it over a branch to retie it, but never on a 16 or 24. That samson hicth cord is a great product, but from handling it personally I think it feels like there is enough "looseness" in the cover to allow it to pick running on raw bark. Strength wise it would be fine though, and it is splicable, class 1 24-strand splice.
 
i have four lanyard combo's for work/comp: 1 very excurrent limby conifer removal i use a steel core maxi-flipline 16' and a gibbs adjuster and set my climbing rigging lines on the way up. 2 large decurrent removal depending on the size and how much flip lining has to be done i ether use a 12' piece of tachyon with an art adjuster or a 9' 5/8ths three strand with a gibbs (beautiful for willow oak and maple removals). 3 pruning/competition large shade trees 16' sampson prussic cord and a trango cinch adjuster. 4 regular small/medium tree removal/pruning/crane work 12' tachyon with art adjuster.


and remember cause a whole lot of people don't: "never panic never fear cause the tail of your rope is always near" jeff cochran

people have been making longer flip lines out of the tail of their climbing line since before moses was a baby. don't get caught up carrying 5lbs of extra weight for a once a tree need you can always pull your tail up.
 
ohhh and before i forget marbars are some money making mo-fo's but if you want to be good at comp you have to footlock everyday (something i'm just learning).
 
I use a "Blaze" lanyard with a VT made of eye and eye Samson "Ice". Aluminum Petzl Ball Lock Carabiners keeps it light weight, and a CMI Double Eye Micro Pully lets me set it up for a short second tie in point.
I found the cordura sleeves more trouble than they are worth, they are never where you want them and a pain to adjust. I have a 10' on my saddle and a 15' in my climbing bag for really big trees.
A buddy of mine just got a 20' lanyard and cut it after the first day as it was just to long to be practical, you might as well double crotch with your climbing line when you need something that long.
 
I disagree with that, but to each his own. I have been using lanyards 18 feet or longer for almost 2 years now, and I cant imagine going back to shorter ones. I can work a canopy like mad with a long lanyard. I just built a 30 footer yesterday and I love it. But like I said, to each his own.
 
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I disagree with that, but to each his own. I have been using lanyards 18 feet or longer for almost 2 years now, and I cant imagine going back to shorter ones. I can work a canopy like mad with a long lanyard. I just built a 30 footer yesterday and I love it. But like I said, to each his own.

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+1 ... made a 20' DEDA lanyard (Distel, each side) almost 2 years ago {Thanks, TomD} ...if it EVER wears out, gonna make a 30'

To the OP question - I'm using 9mm Sterling HTP - designed to be smooth and tough enough for rocks, so it runs well and wears well for tree work without causing notable cambium damage. IMHO sleeves and R&R's were more trouble than they were worth ... also seemed to cause more damage, setting and retrieving, than the bare HTP.
 
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