Kmiii max sewn eye

Z'sTrees

Z'sTrees

Branched out member
Location
Hartsel CO
Technically not a splice, but...

I was told by wesspur that they can't sell the km3 max with a sewn eye due to insufficient break test numbers that do not meet the ansi 5400lb standard.

Treestuff said no problem, Sherrill has a sewn eye available on their site as well.
After a bit more research, teufelberger's website says 3370lb for a sewn termination, while the standard kmiii is rated at 5400mbs sewn.

Any insight on why this might be? Does treestuff/sherrill know something that wesspur doesn't? Or is wesspur more cautious and fastidious than the other vendors?
 
Z'sTrees said:
Technically not a splice, but...

I was told by wesspur that they can't sell the km3 max with a sewn eye due to insufficient break test numbers that do not meet the ansi 5400lb standard.

Treestuff said no problem, Sherrill has a sewn eye available on their site as well.
After a bit more research, teufelberger's website says 3370lb for a sewn termination, while the standard kmiii is rated at 5400mbs sewn.

Any insight on why this might be? Does treestuff/sherrill know something that wesspur doesn't? Or is wesspur more cautious and fastidious than the other vendors?
Click to expand...

Ultimately it comes down to the manufacturer. I appreciate Wesspur’s approach personally.

What would you use a sewn eye termination for in a rope designed for stationary work positioning?


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Worthaug said:
Ultimately it comes down to the manufacturer. I appreciate Wesspur’s approach personally.

What would you use a sewn eye termination for in a rope designed for stationary work positioning?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I agree, and trust teufelberger's knowledge and wesspur's caution by default.

As far as why the eye , I have one in every rope and I find them very useful. Most times it's just for non life support applications but its a nice and tidy way to choke a spar with a steel biner. I'm leery of sewing my own "accessory" eye and letting someone else use the rope.
 
You found a can of worms. There is no standard for this. There is no standard for knotted termination so what is allowed for sewn or spliced (I believe ANSI says it’s up to the manufacture.)?
Personally I am not fond of sewn splices. I would use them in a basket configuration, but not in a dead end terminal application (such as a belay, or traditional false crotch Ddrt config.)
 
Z'sTrees said:
Technically not a splice, but...

I was told by wesspur that they can't sell the km3 max with a sewn eye due to insufficient break test numbers that do not meet the ansi 5400lb standard.

Treestuff said no problem, Sherrill has a sewn eye available on their site as well.
After a bit more research, teufelberger's website says 3370lb for a sewn termination, while the standard kmiii is rated at 5400mbs sewn.

Any insight on why this might be? Does treestuff/sherrill know something that wesspur doesn't? Or is wesspur more cautious and fastidious than the other vendors?
Click to expand...

Z,

Thank you for the post, you've raised some good questions.

Obviously I can't speak on Wesspur's behalf, but I can say that not all sewn splices are the same. There are different machines and different stitch patterns. For us, we use our own proprietary stitch patterns, that we write ourselves, to retain as much of the rope's strength as possible without being a bulky mess.

The sewn splice we use for KMIII Max does break above the 5,400 mark. I asked the splice team to provide data and they broke three for me. Here are the results:
20171010_KMIIImax_splice_break_tests.jpg

The numbers you see below "Peak" are the load at which a break happened (x 1,000). So for the first test, 6.17 equates to a break at 6,170 lbs. The test is a straight pull. On the third test, the rope/splice didn't even fail, the carabiner did. I'll still use that number towards the overall average though, which comes to an average break strength of 6,683 lbs.

I looked at the Teufelberger website too, and noticed that the KMIII shows a significant different between the sewn splice and figure 8 knot's strengths, but they have the KMIII Max's sewn splice and figure 8 knot's strengths rated the same. I'm going to check with them to see if maybe that's a data entry error. None of their other ropes show the same strength for sewn and figure 8.

Again, I appreciate the question. We want everyone to be safe, and have full confidence in their gear. If you have any other questions or concerns, just let me know.

Thanks!

-Sean
 
Good info... I've been climbing and rigging with sewn splices in KM III 1/2" and KM MAX 7/16" ropes for a couple of years. None of those sewn splices look any different than when they were new (I know this because I have pics taken when they were new). I'm currently using 1/2" KM III with sewn splices on both ends in a speedline setup which I'm still fiddling with and testing, but no problems, so far, with static loads up to 600 lbs. which would be the 1:10 WLL at the break numbers you posted.
 
Worthaug said:
What would you use a sewn eye termination for in a rope designed for stationary work positioning?
Click to expand...

I'm thinking to get ~40 feet of KMIII with a sewn and spliced end to test out with my hook. I'm unsure of which end will retrieve more smoothly. Anyone have any experience with this? For me, the hook is an SRT work positioning device.
 
The Teufelberger rating may be for a Slaice, rather than a typical sewing shop eye.
 
oceans said:
- Joining two lines together and retaining more strength than a knot.
- Clean termination for using the tail in temporary DdRT (MRS) config.
- Streamling rope installation.
- Sending up large, fragile, glazed donuts on a William Carabiner. :)
Click to expand...

Knot
Knot
I make mouse eyes for this
Can I get a sausage egg and cheese on an everything bagel?


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oceans said:
- Joining two lines together and retaining more strength than a knot.
- Clean termination for using the tail in temporary DdRT (MRS) config.
- Streamling rope installation.
- Sending up large, fragile, glazed donuts on a William Carabiner. :)
Click to expand...
I noticed your specific term "temporary" ddrt. Is there a construction issue that should deter me from using a parallel core rope for ddrt other than reduced dynamics?
 
Crimsonking said:
I noticed your specific term "temporary" ddrt. Is there a construction issue that should deter me from using a parallel core rope for ddrt other than reduced dynamics?
Click to expand...

The load bearing core strands do not work together like those of a braided core. (16 strand being the exception, because, the parallel core bears no load)


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