?Kevlar kite string for throw line?

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Administrator
I think that you're going to have a problem using a reel to wind up the throwline. You're likely to setup the throwline for bird-nesting. Google it in relationship to winches. If the underlying wraps on a winch spool are done without tension they are loose. Then, you overlay wraps under tension or a load and the wraps cinch down and tuck under each other. When its time to unspool the cable is bound up or birdnested. Time to get out fids, screwdrivers and tire irons. Hand over hand flaking into a bucket will work better.

What is the source of the plated ring you're using? I wouldn't like a ring in that application with a raised weld even if its rated for life support. There are plenty of forged aluminum rings available with labeled specs lasered into them
 

Marie Muma

Member
Location
Port Townsend
I think that you're going to have a problem using a reel to wind up the throwline. You're likely to setup the throwline for bird-nesting. Google it in relationship to winches. If the underlying wraps on a winch spool are done without tension they are loose. Then, you overlay wraps under tension or a load and the wraps cinch down and tuck under each other. When its time to unspool the cable is bound up or birdnested. Time to get out fids, screwdrivers and tire irons. Hand over hand flaking into a bucket will work better.

What is the source of the plated ring you're using? I wouldn't like a ring in that application with a raised weld even if its rated for life support. There are plenty of forged aluminum rings available with labeled specs lasered into them
I hear you LOUD and CLEAR about the spool not working and understand fully with what you have said and agree. Thanks for your feedback which probably saved us much time and grief!! I do agree with you about “hand over hand” being the best. That is what I will do. I will set up a little stool and flake it into the bin while seated. This is actually pretty comfortable and good arm exercise. The only negative is that the thinness of the throwline is uncomfortable, so I am experimenting with different options including possibly a 1/4 inch throwline out of polyester which should be easier on the grip and not dig so much into the hands. Thanks again.
 

Marie Muma

Member
Location
Port Townsend
Perhaps some cheap 5mm milspec paracord? That's about 3/16, plenty strong, decent UV resistance, and comes in any color you could possible want.
I think polyester rope has advantages over paracord. I have found some 1/4 inch stuff that is reasonable priced. Right now the main problem is that the throwline hurts my hands when I am pulling it under tension. I am going to try a DIY device that may help this situation. If that solves the problem, then I will just probably leave the situation as is. The Capillary Throwline is Dyneema which is a really good product.
 

Winchman

Well-Known Member
One thing people often don't realize about string, twine, rope, and cable is that coiling it or winding it on a stationary spool by hand induces an axial twist. It's important to switch hands right to left after several wraps to keep the twist from causing a kink. Cable is especially bad in this respect.

If you're going to try to flake the cable, do it in a figure eight pattern with a loop to the right followed by a loop to the left.
2020-11-29 rope.jpg 2020-11-29 Flake.jpg
 

Rob Stafari

Active Member
Location
Cincinnasti
Yep, pick up an audio engineers cables and try to round coil them by hand and see what happens. You'll only make that mistake once. Figure eight works or an 'over under' coil. Keeps the internals running straight and not twisting. And they run out easier if done right. Also a regular round anything conductive creates energy and will cause distortion in an audio line if coiled while used, but that's another story.
 

Marie Muma

Member
Location
Port Townsend
We have decided to NOT use stainless steel cable. We will stick with our Capillary Throwline if I can figure out a way to flake it without it hurting my hands as the tension increases. The next option will be to switch to a bit thicker that will be easier on my hands, probably a 1/4 inch polyester rope, which is UV resistant, strong, and abrasion resistant.
 

Merle Nelson

Well-Known Member
Location
SF Bay Area, CA
Are you wearing rubber palmer gloves for handeling it under tension?

I buy a thinner pair that gives me great dexterity and use it almost exclusively for that. My wife wears the same model glove because it is grippy when she goes to lift potted plants etc, etc.

Model and make to follow.
 

Marie Muma

Member
Location
Port Townsend
I like the Hardy polyurethane coated work gloves from Harbor Freight. They have proven to be grippy, comfortable, and durable despite their low price.
Thanks. Those are very similar to the ones we got on Amazon. There is a lot of tension on our throwline hauling up our climbing rope to the ring on the 70 foot high Friction Saver. I have tried adding an additional layer under the size XL that my husband uses and this has improved the situation. I really do like the dexterity and nonslip characteristics of these gloves.
 

Marie Muma

Member
Location
Port Townsend
Pull paracord or similar up via throw line then pull rope up. Maybe consider a hand crank to pull it up/store?
Paracord comes in either polyester or nylon, I noticed when looking on the internet. “POLYESTER. Polyester rope is very close to nylon in strength when a steady force is applied. However, polyester stretches very little and therefore cannot absorb shock loads as well. It is also as equally resistant to moisture and chemicals as nylon, but is superior in resistance to abrasion and sunlight.” For these reasons, I will choose a 1/4 inch polyester rope which can easily be found on Amazon for a very good price.
 

Merle Nelson

Well-Known Member
Location
SF Bay Area, CA
Atlas 370 is what I use for incredible dexterity but they are thin. So given what you just wrote maybe not for you.

1/4" rope will be comfortable to pull up and comfortable to pull up a climb line with it. I use 3/8" truckers type rope (crab trap rope in my area) as leave rope overnight on tree jobs.

One word of warning when you start shooting lines up into trees with your Notch line setting device you will encounter all kinds of crotches and levels of friction. Along with needing to get creative on ways to reduce friction of your line unions to go over crotches at times you may find it necessary to pull on a throw line with a lot of force. I have found that wrapping the line around my hand and fingers to get more pull caused a form of nerve damage. Fortunately it subsided later in the day. Always wrap a stick for more pull power, not your hand.

(Polypropylene truckers rope.)
 

Marie Muma

Member
Location
Port Townsend
Atlas 370 is what I use for incredible dexterity but they are thin. So given what you just wrote maybe not for you.

1/4" rope will be comfortable to pull up and comfortable to pull up a climb line with it. I use 3/8" truckers type rope (crab trap rope in my area) as leave rope overnight on tree jobs.

One word of warning when you start shooting lines up into trees with your Notch line setting device you will encounter all kinds of crotches and levels of friction. Along with needing to get creative on ways to reduce friction of your line unions to go over crotches at times you may find it necessary to pull on a throw line with a lot of force. I have found that wrapping the line around my hand and fingers to get more pull caused a form of nerve damage. Fortunately it subsided later in the day. Always wrap a stick for more pull power, not your hand.

(Polypropylene truckers rope.)
I think that great minds think alike!! LOL. I am going to try that ”stick” approach that you mention. If this works, then I will stay with this Capillary Throwline which is ultra thin Dyneema. I am sure that we will most likely encounter many of the problems you talk about when we first start launching throw bags up into trees. I have already thought about some ”creative” ways to reduce the friction of line unions. This is what I like about recreational tree climbing, that it stimulates the creative juices. Take care...........
 

Merle Nelson

Well-Known Member
Location
SF Bay Area, CA
I do little line throwing and almost always go straight to putting a line where I want with a Big Shot. I use a throw line winding reel to manage the thin dyneema lines and keep them primarily tangle free.

When I talk about a lot of friction I mean like I can barely pull over my climb line. Or have to pull it back a foot and try repeatedly in different ways to get it over. So that's over a hundred pounds of force.

Sometimes that will not work but I think two of us could get it. So, a couple hundred pounds of force. That is where 800# test dyneema really starts to pay for itself. But, careful of the hands....
 

Marie Muma

Member
Location
Port Townsend
I do little line throwing and almost always go straight to putting a line where I want with a Big Shot. I use a throw line winding reel to manage the thin dyneema lines and keep them primarily tangle free.

When I talk about a lot of friction I mean like I can barely pull over my climb line. Or have to pull it back a foot and try repeatedly in different ways to get it over. So that's over a hundred pounds of force.

Sometimes that will not work but I think two of us could get it. So, a couple hundred pounds of force. That is where 800# test dyneema really starts to pay for itself. But, careful of the hands....
I received a comment about using a reel for thin line. Their feeling was that initially there is little or no force required and later the force required can be HUGE, like you said. They said that this situation can and does result in “bird nesting” of the line when the under tension line goes in a around the lesser tensioned line, which makes it nearly impossible to unwind. Have you found that to be the problem?? Can you send me a link to the “throw line winding reel?”
 

Merle Nelson

Well-Known Member
Location
SF Bay Area, CA
Yes that would be a problem if I let it be. We are always solving problems however (I think of tree work as the consummate puzzle to be solved each day in a different way). I pull my throw line out of the tree or any impedance by hand moving and laying it out on fresh enough ground as to not birdnest together as I do. Then I grab up the reel and wind it up with enough consistent friction as to be in good condition for the next shot.

There are several old threads here about throw line reels. A few people made their own up. One former member, TreeMachine, made a run of 300 of them which were sold through TreeStuff. Sadly those sold out long ago.

Some people find it useful to flake the throw line into a five gallon bucket.

I experimented with the original concept of this thread, kite string, and a large salt water fishing reel. That worked fine enough with regard to shot and rewinding line pulled out of the tree and was only left by the wayside by me because it didn't give me the higher than 100 foot shots I was primarily after while the strength of line was down to 50 or 80 lbs if I recall. (Didn't comment earlier because I was not sure of the exact facts.)
 

Merle Nelson

Well-Known Member
Location
SF Bay Area, CA

Here is one thread.
 

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