Is this an 'out the park' moment for Tom? 5:1 rads

tuttle

tuttle

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Is this an \'out the park\' moment for Tom? 5:1 rads

This is a 5:1 rads system, just messed about with my 28 x 20 antal ring...

Wonder what you guys make of it (Tom Hoffman included ;)

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Re: Is this an \'out the park\' moment for Tom? 5:1 rads

Looks like mental gymnastics...would you ever use it in real life climbing?

Short of using it for a rescue lift?
 
Re: Is this an \'out the park\' moment for Tom? 5:1 rads

Just thought it would fun if a bit tired and needing a steady haul up a big tree.

I'm sure it could have many uses, just wanted to throw the picture on as I only tried it for the first time 10mins ago.
 
Re: Is this an \'out the park\' moment for Tom? 5:1 rads

[ QUOTE ]
I like the double duty on the ring!

[/ QUOTE ]

I had this thought while thinking about the big DMM rigging pulley, offering lowering and re-direct off the same ring.
 
Re: Is this an \'out the park\' moment for Tom? 5:1 rads

[ QUOTE ]
This is a 5:1 rads system, just messed about with my 28 x 20 antal ring...

Wonder what you guys make of it (Tom Hoffman included ;)


[/ QUOTE ]

I like it for the educational experience and I appreciate the inspiration.

Couple of thoughts:
I think the advantage will be lost being that it is a simple pulley system and will end up with lots of friction.
Because it requires re-sets. I think it will be hard to capture much more than 1 foot of progress each time. So to climb 1 foot you will have to pull 5 feet of line PLUS... pull the slack out of the system each time, maybe 2 feet. So to advance 1 foot you will be pulling 7 feet of rope. Let out the tension, push the Shunt up a foot and process another 7 feet of rope. So a 50' climb will see maybe 350' of rope pulled. I'm tired just thinking about it.

Now another thought. Remember to re-set that Shunt you will be applying a mechanical DISADVANTAGE, so to lift say 10 pounds of climbing line hanging below your system you have to push up 50 pounds plus you must overcome the friction from the rings at the end of the system. Getting really tired now :)
Maybe if it was used as a hauling system with that Shunt set very high, you would find it useful. But then you would end up with just a 4:1 advantage and a Shunt that will slip when it gets much weight depending on rope diameter.

Thanks for the exercise.

Cheers

Richard
 
Re: Is this an \'out the park\' moment for Tom? 5:1 rads

[ QUOTE ]
I like the double duty on the ring!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I think you just invented something.
One of the great advantages to pulleys is how you can transfer force. With the right pulleys you could lift something in your basement while laying in your bed upstairs.

That being said, what about a pulley inside a pulley set on gimble bearings. Pulleys 90 degrees to each other and the frame 45 degrees to the pulleys. It's like seeing around a corner but pulling around a corner.

Ok, more exercise for the brain, I'll be thinking on that one a while.
 
Re: Is this an \'out the park\' moment for Tom? 5:1 rads

A pinto pulley with a revolver thru the becket might be a better solution,same kind of concept though.
 
Re: Is this an \'out the park\' moment for Tom? 5:1 rads

I was thinking more for a 25ft lanyard (attached to access line), than 150ft of rope, that would be an srt walk in the park :)

Its only a bit of fun and a thought, hopefully 'Tom' will comment and inform me of the correct mechanical advantage.
 
Re: Is this an \'out the park\' moment for Tom? 5:1 rads

Like Richard said there will be so much friction that you're likely to under achieve the theoretical MA by a couple of factors.

If you were trying to achieve the true MA you'd be better off stopping at about 3:1 and then going to a piggy back or compounding system.

This is a fun way to see what can be done with gear at hand. Like I said, in the case of a rescue a climber might need to put together a lifting system to get a victim up. Knowing how to configure this beforehand might save time/lives.
 
Re: Is this an \'out the park\' moment for Tom? 5:1 rads

The first drop in of the outside line is fast, the second thread through the centre takes time, its still a pocket tool with all those tricks.

Imagine 2 or 3 rings in a pulling the stem situation, where you put the rig in your back pocket afterwards - that would raise a few eyebrows for sure. :)
 
Re: Is this an \'out the park\' moment for Tom? 5:1 rads

Here's something that isn't understood about MA systems.

Each leg of the MA takes a lesser load depending on the MA of the whole works.

Start simple...if we want to generate 500# MA [I'm not going to add in any safety factor, this is raw load]

1:1-need a rope with 500# breaking strength
2:1-need a rope with 250# breaking strength
5:1-need a rope with 100# breaking strength

The load on each leg of the MA is divided by the MA.

Seeing handy billy/rope come-along systems sold that use 5k# breaking strength ropes mated to blocks with 2k# breaking strength is a waste of money. Besides, the whole MA rig is heavy and huge.

I found this webpage years ago. It's gone off-line but the Wayback Machine has it archived. It's a treasure!

Tackle
 
Re: Is this an \'out the park\' moment for Tom? 5:1 rads

Tuttle, sorry to be tardy here ... Been really covered up ...

I agree with Nick. The 'nugget' here is your dual use ring. It's like getting two pulleys together in a really small amount of vertical space.

Thanks for posting that.

OF
 
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