insurance

I have been subbing for a few people the last few months on and off. My job is to come in and put it on the ground. My insurance covers me for commercial tree work. When working for other companies I use their workers who normally have little to no experience with being groundies.

The hypothetical situation I wanted to bring up was this...
You (the climber) have a top/ branch/ log tied off and tell the groundie (other company's employee) to let it run otherwise the house/ garage/ whatever is going to get busted up. You cut the piece, groundie doesn't let it run and there is property damage.

Who is at fault? You for making the cut and having experience to know better? Them for not following directions?
 
package deal, climber and a rope man, or get it in writing in advance,
ive been there on the other side and it sucks.. contract faller (insured ) smashed my chipper, wouldnt report to ins, i did and they wouldnt make a claim unless he told em and he wouldnt..
i was pissed, strained friendship lots of bull, you know...
 
Guys,

This same kind of question is asked often. Commonly respondents state 'opinion' based on their feelings. I anticipate the same from this question. What is concerning about emotional responses is that they are usually founded on little legal basis. Be careful when reviewing these answers. That is one of the dangers of 'blog' sites. We tend to interact socially with others that share our interests and subsequently we enjoy a false sense of security that is provided when others share our preferred viewpoint. What I'm suggesting here is that similar to other posts, you are likely to get responses that say you are not liable.

Instead of telling you what you probably want to hear, I'm going to respond on the basis of my understanding of the law (similar systems in Canada as in the U.S.). There are two issues of legal principle you should be aware of.

The first is that your question, "Who is at fault" is suggesting that you are asking 'us' to play judge and jury without evidence, facts and from most, very little formal legal training. As implied by the earlier comment, this is likely to produce responses based on emotional preference rather than legal principles. Anyway, the first principle being indicated here is 'legal process'. One whereby evidence and testimony is presented by both a plaintiff and a defendent, reviewed and then a decision is made. In civil cases, the requirement is only to prove beyond the 'balance of probability', not 'beyond a reasonable doubt' as applies to criminal cases.

The second point is an extension of the first. During 'due process', the evidence and testimony presented by a plaintiff in a civil case is attempting to prove 'beyond the balance of probability' that you have been negligent. Your question asks 'who is at fault'. Here you have hit the proverbial nail on the head perhaps without realizing it. Recognize that you both might have a legal degree of fault! You may not be entirely responsible but only partially responsible. Of course, that's up for a judge and jury to decide based on an actual case should it become a reality.

The last point I want to make is to ask you to consider what the costs of the 'legal process' above is. The original question posed was "Who is at fault". Recognize that being liable and being sued are two different things. What is common about each is that both will cost a lot of money. This takes me to my realm in the world. Insurance! Review carefully with your insurance representatives the importance of comprehensive coverage. Not necessarily just for what you may have done 'wrong', but for protection to pay the substantial costs to prove what you have also done 'right'. For more information including some examples, see: www.treesure.ca.

Always interested in discussing this concerning issue.

Best Wishes!

Scott
 
Scott!!

You've found your way here! Good on ya! Any Canadian Arbo's give the man a call, a pleasure to talk insurance with someone who is knowledgeable about our industry.
 
Legally speaking, this doesn't mean much- The unspoken rule in the south is that the climbers responsability ends when his control ends. That is, as long as the piece you were cutting is not too large for the rigging system, then the groundman's at fault.

That being said, I would agree with thattreeguy that distasters are best prevented in writing. Most tree work is a team effort- not only property is at stake, but health and well being.

Also- I would think that the contractor would retain ultimate responsibility for the damage...perhaps he could then choose to sue you, but the initial cost would seemingly come out of his/her pocket.

If anyone hears of similar legal cases, I think everyone would benefit from that posting.

Plus hi_tree- when you say your insurance covers you for commercial tree work, are you referring to health or liability or both?
 

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