Inspecting a figure 8 belay device

[Mika]

Hi! I'm wondering if you could give me a few pointers on how to inspect the metal parts of the gear

I got this figure 8 a couple of days ago (I haven't even removed the label yet), and this is what the inside of the small (carabiner) end looks like:



Are those small dents near my thumb cause for concern, or am I being overly paranoid? Of course, I'm also trying to contact the seller, but I figured this would be a good opportunity to get a few references on what constitutes expected and inconsequential wear and tear, and what should be considered potentially consequential damage. Most of what I've found on the Internet about that was quite vague.

I've seen videos of people using figure 8's that looked a lot worse than that. At the same time, because this is supposed to be a new one I'm worried that there might have been something about how it's been stored or even used before that could be a hazard.

Any thoughts? Would you be willing to share photos of your figure 8's — particularly if you have something you've decided to retire, and why you retired it?

Thanks a lot in advance!
Mika

 

[Dan Cobb]

My figure 8 has a little wear on it, but I haven't considered retiring it.

 

[Jonny]

Figure 8s might last a lifetime if just used to rappel out of trees could probably last a lifetime if the rope isn’t very dirty.

What company made it or what country was it manufactures in? I think those dents are machine marks. The good gear manufacturers like DMM, Petzl, CMI, etc don’t let flaws like that reach the customers. I might be wrong about the defect though.

I got a spare never used aluminum CMI rescue 8 with ears that you can have if you pay shipping, message me if you want it.

 

[Mika]

What company made it or what country was it manufactures in? I think those dents are machine marks. The good gear manufacturers like DMM, Petzl, CMI, etc don’t let flaws like that reach the customers. I might be wrong about the defect though.

The brand is Alpen Pass, and it was made in Taiwan. It was on the cheap end of the spectrum, so it makes sense that these might be cosmetic marks. Let's see what the seller says.

I got a spare never used aluminum CMI rescue 8 with ears that you can have if you pay shipping, message me if you want it.

That's a generous offer! I'll check how much it would cost to ship it from Buffalo to where I'm at in Brazil, and DM you if it turns out to make sense

 

[flushcut]

My figure 8 has a little wear on it, but I haven't considered retiring it.

Not bad for a 30+/- year old fig 8.

 

[dmonn]

I don't have an 8-shaped figure any more. It's getting to be more of an oval shape.

 

[southsoundtree]

Do you use a backup hitch with your F8s?

A "fireman's belay" takes a ground worker away from productive work, alternately easily accomplished with a piece of cheap cord.

 

[Mika]

Do you use a backup hitch with your F8s?

Yes. I always back up my rappel with a hitch!

Would a fireman's belay help in case of failure of the figure 8 itself though?

Do you have any pointers on damage assessment?

I'd love to see a couple more pictures of your figure 8 devices!

 

[Mika]

I don't have an 8-shaped figure any more. It's getting to be more of an oval shape.

Would you be willing to show a photo of it?

 

[Reach]

Would you be willing to show a photo of it?

I don’t think you want to see that! He is talking about his own shape, apparently he’s grown a bit over the years.

 

[Reach]

I’ll chime in with my opinion, as it’s one I have not seen here yet.

Return that cheap thing and buy a good one. Your life is worth more than the $10 difference between a good Figure 8 and a cheap one. Life support equipment is never worth buying cheap. You can always earn more money, save a little longer, or borrow from a friend, if you’re alive. If that thing breaks because it was cheaply made, you’re dead.

 

[Dan Cobb]

Life support equipment is never worth buying cheap.

I agree with you on that. I'd feel more secure on a well worn, quality piece of gear than a new piece of cheap gear.

With the safety factor of life support gear, I feel like any damage caused by usage that is severe enough to make the item unsafe is likely to be fairly obvious. On the other hand, a serious manufacturing defect or error could be difficult to detect.

In my personal experience, the only manufacturing defect I've seen was on a friend's Gibbs ascender cam. The cam is a casting and it had a small bubble in it. As the cam wore down, the void was exposed with a knife edge around it. Every step he took slightly cut the rope. The other friend who had a brand new 660 ft rope with a puff of cut sheath fibers on it every 2 ft over almost the whole length was not happy. That said, neither the ascender nor the rope were compromised to the point of being unsafe.

 

[southsoundtree]

I never use a f8.

I will munter-hitch rappel at times.

 

[Steve Connally]

What is your intended use of the F8. Depending on what you’re doing there may be a much better solution that has active capture and stops you Incase of an emergency with the ability to positively lock it off withou t struggling to unlock to continue descent.

 

[southsoundtree]

An autoblock (french prussic below the F8) is a good choice for a back-up. This can attach to a leg loop or bridge ring.

Extending the F8 away from the bridge make it easier to control, and the Autoblock can be attached to the bridge.

Autoblock Machard or French Prusik Knot, with a Locked Carabiner, Isolated on White Background. Stock Image - Image of friction, emergency: 141197783

Autoblock Machard or French Prusik knot, with a locked carabiner, isolated on white background.. Photo about friction, emergency, closeup, alpinism, isolated, locked - 141197783

www.dreamstime.com

 

[27RMT0N]

Looks simply cosmetic to me. I think Dans photo gets the point across, but here is a video about abusing and then break testing aluminum life support gear (biners in this video) that might give you some comfort:

 

[Mika]

I appreciate all the input!

What is your intended use of the F8. Depending on what you’re doing there may be a much better solution that has active capture and stops you Incase of an emergency with the ability to positively lock it off withou t struggling to unlock to continue descent.

My main intended use is to rappel down from a tree I climbed recreationally. I also have an ATC, which I find offers a much better user experience, and it's probably what I'll use the most, especially if I'm climbing alone. I got this because I'd been lending a friend my ATC, and I'd read that the Munter Hitch is not very good on the rope. Any thoughts on that? I wanted to own and learn how to use a figure 8 so that's essentially why I thought about getting one instead of another ATC.

An autoblock (french prussic below the F8) is a good choice for a back-up. This can attach to a leg loop or bridge ring.

Extending the F8 away from the bridge make it easier to control, and the Autoblock can be attached to the bridge.

Autoblock Machard or French Prusik Knot, with a Locked Carabiner, Isolated on White Background. Stock Image - Image of friction, emergency: 141197783

Autoblock Machard or French Prusik knot, with a locked carabiner, isolated on white background.. Photo about friction, emergency, closeup, alpinism, isolated, locked - 141197783

www.dreamstime.com

This is exactly what I do, always! Thanks for the link

 

[Steve Connally]

I personally think a milticender might fit better but it seems you know exactly what you need. I prefer a device I can ascend and descend on without having anything come on or off the rope during my climb. Lots of accidents happen with changeover of systems.

 

[Jonny]

The Munter seems to put more twist in the rope below than the figure 8, though the F8 does twist it some too.

Steve is likely right, as usual. Sounds like Mika needs a Rope Wrench or whatever other SRT device for arborists. A bigger investment compared to a figure 8, HMS biner, ATC, etc, but much more versatile and less fumbling around where you might be exposed to error when setting up a figure 8 at height.

The Rope Wrench is a pretty simple design, and easy enough to make one for personal use. Some are as simple as a piece of wood with a couple holes drilled. The CMI Glide pulley makes a good looking and compact wrench. There’s some pics courtesy of SouthSoundTree and Batla and a few that came from Google image search.

 

[surveyor]

I like this style of RW (which could be called a rope nut. : ), if for no other reason than it looks so neat with the rope flowing through it. Also there is a bollard in the center which keeps it in in upright position when it is not loaded.