Input on splices

JeffL

JeffL

Location
Orange, MA
So finally finished up on my first splice, a "semi" tight eye in poison ivy. New house projects and newborn baby means I get to run downstairs and pick away at projects down there 5 minutes here and 5 minutes there, so might have prettied it up a bit otherwise, but I was just happy to have finally completed that damn core bury. I wasnt planning on hanging life and limb on it, so cut it off the end of the line when I finished. I had the cover buried back about 11.5-12" from the throat of the splice. As the splice was a little here, a little there, I kind of lost my spot in the directions, and think I missed the core reduction and taper step, as is pretty evident by the bulkiness of it towards the eye. Also I've got a little extra cover in the eye, you can feel it when manipulating the eye by hand.

My questions/concerns are, what did I do/not do to create the extra cover in the eye? Did I not finish burying the crossover completely, not smooth out the crossover enough before burying it? Why is the throat of the splice so tight? You can see that cover strands are extremely tight right from the eye all the way down to where the core previously exited the cover before cutting off the excess. Would this at all be alleviated had I properly tapered/reduced the core tail before sliding it back in?
 

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Here you can see the tension of all the cover strands from the throat of the splice to the former core tail.
 

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And, picked up some tenex to play around with the hollow braid splices, and maybe give myself a little pick me up after beating myself up with the double braid eye splice.

Are the cross overs in the locked brummel spaced close enough together? It said 2 picks in the Samson instructions, but they look a little too far spaced compared to all the "manufactured" locking brummels I see on the other sling products I own. Its 1/2" tenex in the picture, maybe thats what throws me off? Or should I go even less than 2 picks?
 

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You are too far apart on the brummel splice. You notice how the strands in one direction look like v's stacked one inside the other. The pairs of strands go to the left and right. You know the point through which you stick the fid without separating the pairs of strands. It's at the base of the v. That is a pick. They are literally a 1/2 " apart. 2 picks is an inch. You need to get the cover slack out of the eye and taper the core and cover before burying. Double braid, especially the 7/16, takes a lot of practice, patience and blisters. Ask for Shawn over at Wesspur. He's good for over the phone splicing advice. It poured all day in Jersey too. Good day to practice making some toys. Good luck and don't impale yourself with a pusher.
 
I agree that the double-braid just requires some practice. As to the Tenex, the locked Brummel doesn't look so hot, but it is fully functional. Yours would have come out looking pretty if you had:

1. pulled on the eye after making the Brummel but before the bury step. This would have tightened the spacing between the "crossovers."
2. started the bury closer to the Brummel. If you try to go too close you should know it right away.
3. stitched the throat right away after pulling the bury home. This way you can be sure the two rope legs going to the Brummel are balanced. The first time you fold or bend the splice, the bury will start to come out unless you have already stitched it.

Two or 3 tries and you'll have it down.
 
So I could stand to tighten up both "crossovers" of the Brummell behind the eye? It's easy enough to pull apart, it hasn't been loaded, I'll probably just redo it.
 
Double braid is tough for sure. I practiced on all old rope before buying new. That was a well deserved treat when i switched over to new rope. Still can be a pain in the butt though.
Practice, practice and practice. What i have found to be helpful with the finished bury in 7/16 diameter rope is using my saddle. I will tie it off to the spliced eye with just a carabiner and then sit back into my saddle.( with the other end tied off to a fixed point, like the beam in my basement) This keeps tension on the eye, giving me good control, and both hands to work the cover.

I would visit Nicks Araya website and look at his video on how to splice a whoopie sling. He teaches how to do a locked brummel, and it is nice to see it on video, and all the steps.

We need a local splicing class hey!!!
 
No kidding, it was actually seeing you at NE Grows that finally motivated me to start trying some stuff on my own. Actually spent nearly 2 hours with Jim at the shelter booth till the floor closed at 5 having him go over a few things, was really rather interesting.

I have about 40' of year old PI that's nearly spotless new off a previously 150' rope after a ground guy chopped my tail off while I was climbing for a removal and taking some big pieces of oak. Boo :-(
 
[ QUOTE ]
So finally finished up on my first splice, a "semi" tight eye in poison ivy. New house projects and newborn baby means I get to run downstairs and pick away at projects down there 5 minutes here and 5 minutes there, so might have prettied it up a bit otherwise, but I was just happy to have finally completed that damn core bury. I wasnt planning on hanging life and limb on it, so cut it off the end of the line when I finished. I had the cover buried back about 11.5-12" from the throat of the splice. As the splice was a little here, a little there, I kind of lost my spot in the directions, and think I missed the core reduction and taper step, as is pretty evident by the bulkiness of it towards the eye. Also I've got a little extra cover in the eye, you can feel it when manipulating the eye by hand.

My questions/concerns are, what did I do/not do to create the extra cover in the eye? Did I not finish burying the crossover completely, not smooth out the crossover enough before burying it? Why is the throat of the splice so tight? You can see that cover strands are extremely tight right from the eye all the way down to where the core previously exited the cover before cutting off the excess. Would this at all be alleviated had I properly tapered/reduced the core tail before sliding it back in?

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Once the bury is started, I put a 1" tube fid in the eye and pull hard to milk the core in. That will usually balance the cover/core.
Advice: taper the core at the throat. See how the splice goes from big to small? A smoother transition will strengthen the splice, as well as cosmetics.

Agree with others on the locking brummel.
 
I was workng off the new England ropes instructions for db class 1, if I remember correctly, it said to not reduce the core tail until after the bury. Should I be reducing the core beforehand? With how tight the cover strands were, there was no way I was able to pull enough of the core tail out to taper it back to the throat of the eye, is that why I had so much trouble with the core bury? Should it be reduced before?
 
I redid the whoopie last night too and self diagnosed another problem I ran into. I tightened up the locking Brummell and reburied the tail, but I must have fooled with it too much before lock stitching it. So it looks like the tail withdrew a bit and the Brummell is tightening up before the tail is being grabbed by the cover due to the slack in the tail. 3rd times a charm! At least now I know to stitch it before moving on with the back splice and flopping the rope all around and loosening it up!
 
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I was workng off the new England ropes instructions for db class 1, if I remember correctly, it said to not reduce the core tail until after the bury. Should I be reducing the core beforehand? With how tight the cover strands were, there was no way I was able to pull enough of the core tail out to taper it back to the throat of the eye, is that why I had so much trouble with the core bury? Should it be reduced before?

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Bury a couple of rope diameters or so more, and make the transition as smooth as possible. Use a coat hanger or piano wire to pull it through. Best to taper after it's been pulled through. During rope break testing, the breaks have been at the part where there is little or no transition. Even though this is a climbing line and the rope will see no where near it's breaking strength, it's good to make all DB splices the same.
I used to make my splices like the 1 you did, until I started breaking the splices. Very eye opening.

If you haven't climbed on that splice, you can take it apart and re-do without having to lose more than 4 or 5 inches of rope. You're doin a great job. Thanks for askin questions and wanting to do a professional splice.
 
Spliced some used PI and Blaze today. I followed the Samson directions and watched the double braid video Brion Toss has on YouTube. The Toss video helped me wrap my mind around how the splice works. Splices turned out real nice, ended up with a couple blisters though. My hands aren't as tough as I thought.
 
Splicing double braid is harder on the hands than climbing. It's the 7/16 climbing lines in particular. I was told that the covers are weaved especially tight to reduce milking. If you're just making a lanyard you could cheat by tapering the cover before you even extract the core. Pull out some strands up to the extraction point. This should make getting the core out a little easier. Then you can reduce the core by say 25%. You can also shorten the distance between mark x and z (from the Samson splicing guide). Just lock stitch really good. I did this on a lanyard or 2 I made from tachyon rope. They came out ok. I figured I'm just leaning back in it and it's not taking much weight. Any one have any suggestions besides cheating?
 
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Splicing double braid is harder on the hands than climbing. It's the 7/16 climbing lines in particular. I was told that the covers are weaved especially tight to reduce milking. If you're just making a lanyard you could cheat by tapering the cover before you even extract the core. Pull out some strands up to the extraction point. This should make getting the core out a little easier. Then you can reduce the core by say 25%. You can also shorten the distance between mark x and z (from the Samson splicing guide). Just lock stitch really good. I did this on a lanyard or 2 I made from tachyon rope. They came out ok. I figured I'm lust leaning back in it and it's not taking much weight. Any one have any suggestions besides cheating?

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I don't think you should be doing this. Your lanyard still sees plenty of force. SRT lanyard comes to mind. The
24 strand double braids aren't that hard to splice. Just take a couple deep breaths and whack that thing with a rubber mallet. Why deviate from manufacturers specs when your life is on the line?
 
Yeah, I don't think I'd cheat on double braid, the buries aren't all that long. It's not hard once you've done several. Do some 10mm beeline to get the pattern down, it's super easy. Velocity is an excellent rope to start doing 24 strand because it's really easy too. Don't start with used rope, it will put you off splicing unless you're really bullheaded... which most climbers are come to think of it.

Expect your hands to hurt but it's a good hurt... splicing is killer for conditioning your grip.
 
there is no way to tell how much strength loss you will have when you deviate from the splice specs. I would re-do your lanyard friend... good advice blinky, I stated with the existing rope i had, used 16 strand xtc and 24 strand velocity also used. Them mothers hurt like crazy. Then i bought a tachyon, and thought i did the splice wrong cause the bury went so much easier.
 
Thanks for the input. I was a little apprehensive about my finished splice. That's why I posted. I'll give it another try by the book. And maybe try different types like blaze or veocity.
 
If you end up with a frog or extra slack from the cover, DUDE! Something did not go right and I certainly would not climb on that splice. Splicing takes a lot of patience, milking, and massaging. Practice makes you live another day. Cut the line at the point of the crossover and try it again without distractions and lot's of milking, massaging, especially when the eye gets smaller you must make sure to reverse milk or use a marlin spike to make sure you don't get bunching at the eye before the throat and taper. Brion toss's video really helps out a lot and nick araya can give you more advice. You will know when it all goes together super clean and smooth that you have done it right, at that point you can climb or rig off of it. Even veteran splicers like myself can mess up with just one distraction....

Stay tied in,


X-man O.G.
 
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