I'm calling B.S.

speelyei

speelyei

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I\'m calling B.S.

Bachelor of Science, that is.

I am seriously debating taking a bunch of school loans and going and getting a BS in Hort, Gen'l Ag, or something else industry related.

I'd like some input from the peanut gallery, though..

My thought is that with some credentials and a few select classes I could be more valuable as a bidder/estimator/consultant or in some niche of the green industry I am not aware of yet..

Currently, I have about 12 years on paper trimming for line clearance, commercial, residential, and a few ISA certs. I also have a Journeymans card for High voltage, and have gotten my Herbicide App card and let it lapse again a couple times. I also have six years in training tree climbers for the Job Corps, which has really been something...

Anyway, I have my own personal demons driving me to go back to school, but I am wondering what you guys think...
 
Re: I\'m calling B.S.

LOL, if you have some 'demons' driving you, what choice do you have but to go. Or, they'll nag you forever.

Earning a B.S. degree can be a long term effort, esp. if you have to work full time and go to school part time. You could easily be looking at 10 years or more to get through school going part time. It will be quite an expense and likely drain a lot of energy. But,

If you can manage it, I don't think you'll ever be sorry you did it. Just be sure you've got a good handle on expenses, time, energy, family management before you make the final decision. You don't want to spend a bunch of money and not be able come out the other end with a BS. I encourage you to go for it if the time and finances are available - if successful, I just don't see how you'd ever regret it.
 
Re: I\'m calling B.S.

I don't have the field experiences that you have, but I do have the education and I would always encourage anyone to go for it. I have been wanting to get my PhD for a while now, but that is another story. Anyway, the little things that you get out of college classes will go a long ways not only as an arborist but as a business person. There is so much to apply its crazy. And actually, you will be able to contribute to the education of the other traditional students with your valuable field experiences. You can get the joy out of doing that as well as learning yourself.
If you like to learn, then go for it, but expect some 'generals' to go through that may not be that interesting...
 
Re: I\'m calling B.S.

Your thought processes and understanding of your subject will excel in a way that can't be described by experience alone. Get that education.

Joe
 
Re: I\'m calling B.S.

I am planning on taking enough loans to focus on school, going full time, maybe just working on the weekends under my own license and bond. It would involve picking up the family and moving inland to a town with a state school.
I'm not quite 40, it would mean starting over at square one, probably Math 60, Wr 121, 122, 123 all over again...
But, I'm a different person with different motivations and habits. It'd be intersting. I feel the time is at hand to decide if I'm gonna finish and do it imminently, or put it to bed forever...
 
Re: I\'m calling B.S.

[ QUOTE ]
I am planning on taking enough loans to focus on school,... picking up the family and moving inland to a town with a state school....

[/ QUOTE ]Well thier take on this proposal means a lot more than ours, but..

Ever consider online courses? And if really starting from scratch then also you may test out of a lot of basic prereq's.

Online education also can work for students in states such as North Dakota where there are long distances to cover. Minot State in Bottineau’s Urban Forestry Technology program is led by another arborist with considerable field experience, Robert Underwood. Once completed, its six courses comprise a one-year diploma, and its credits can transfer to a degree program. Bob’s students have ranged from a 61-yr old lady who mailed him over a hundred samples of herbaceous plants from Philadelphia to satisfy a lab requirement to a 16-year old who tackled the Soils course, based on the same comprehensive textbook authored by Philip Craul as university courses use, so he would not have to take that course on campus. Bob has received Forestry term papers from a student in India, and his students on his North Dakota campus were treated to an hourlong description of the desparate state of forestry in the Sahara desert, where a load of firewood can cost half a year’s pay. “The huge diversity makes online education fascinating”, Bob says.

Universities and community colleges also offer other alternatives to the traditional semester-long courses. Some offer credit for weekend courses that prepare for the ISA certification test. Others are built around other special events, like a climbing class. Some manage to cover three credits of information in just one evening per week. By connecting with your local school, you may learn about courses that work for you without a long time commitment.
 
Re: I\'m calling B.S.

Financially it does not makes sense to take out loans. How long will it take to pay them off?

I would work at a slower pace, fewer classes at a time and pay as you go. You may decide that it's not the right path- then you're only out a few credits worth.

Either way- when you're done, it'll be all spending money. The only person "interested" in your money should be you.

love
nick
 
Re: I\'m calling B.S.

Definitely look into the online course programs. Just recently finished a BS in tropical plant and soil sciences; don't regret it for a minute! I was lucky and had a scholarship and very few financial responsibilities, so it made a lot of sense to go.

Many friends though are out and have forty or fifty thousand in student loans and can't find work. That's tough, especially with a family thrown into the equation. Our industry needs more people with formal education and experience doing the actual work. My advice (from the peanut gallery) would be to make a long term goal to get your BS, take courses when you can afford and seriously look into restructuring your business model if you want an edge in the market.

What about ASCA?

jp
grin.gif
 
Re: I\'m calling B.S.

[ QUOTE ]
My advice (from the peanut gallery) would be to make a long term goal to get your BS, take courses when you can afford and seriously look into restructuring your business model if you want an edge in the market.

What about ASCA?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good advice, maybe. ASCA costs a lot for dues and the Academy but it works well for some.

Re loans, from the attached: Every student should know about Federal Student Aid, an office of the U.S. Department of Education that gives money to students. Federal Student Aid's mission is to ensure that all eligible Americans benefit from federal financial assistance—grants, loans and work-study programs—for education beyond high school. They are the nation's largest source of student aid: during the 2005-06 school year alone, they gave about $78,000,000,000.00 in new aid to nearly 10 million postsecondary students and their families. It looks like there is plenty of money to go around!
The first step in getting this money is to go to www.fafsa.ed.gov and fill out the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA), the fundamental qualifying form used for all federal and government-guaranteed commercial lenders' programs—as well as for many state, regional and private student aid programs. By filling out the online or paper FAFSA, applicants start the process of qualifying for aid. Each year, approximately 14 million FAFSAs are processed. With a little help, you can enter the tree business with more options if you have some learning under your belt. It’s like joining the Army—if you go to West Point or ROTC first, you have a lot more choices than if you enlist.
 

Attachments

Re: I\'m calling B.S.

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I'd like some input from the peanut gallery, though..



[/ QUOTE ]

Whats a peanut gallery? where does this saying come from?

thanks
 
Re: I\'m calling B.S.

I have not read everyone's response, but I will give you my take.

I work with my husband (DSMC on this forum) and have for 25 years or so now. For a long time, I considered myself just the helpmate. Then gradually realized his profession had become mine.

I am getting really close to 57 years old and for the longest time had been telling myself "if I were to start over again, I would..." I thought it would be good to obtain certification but felt it was too late or I was too old, or it was too expensive.

Then I came to the realization that I wasn't dead yet. Since quitting work and going back to school was not an option, I started looking into on-line courses. I wanted something more than just "informational links". But I wanted something with deadlines and commitments and, if possible, a piece of paper at the end that would demonstrate to others that I had seriously pursued a designated course.

I found that with Bob Underwood's courses through the University of North Dakota on-line system at Dakota College (they just changed that campus' name). They offer an Urban Forestry Management Diploma program on-line which is geared towards arboriculture in the urban environment.

I feel this is important for our industry. General Ag is farming. Forestry is the timber industry. Our industry, residential tree care, is unique and specific; and while there may be crossover elements IMHO going for a degree in them would lead you in another direction. I, personally, selected landscape design as an adjunctant to arboriculture as there are many times clients need to know about their entire landscape, not one facet of it. Being more knowledgeable about all aspects, lawns, flowers, shrubs and trees, is very beneficial. So with that said, the B.S in Hort would be better than Ag.

I know others have warned you of the dangers of getting in over your head with student loans and this is advice to heed. Just simply pursuing these individual courses are going to be a huge benefit towards setting yourself apart.

My personal quest has the BCMA objective as a goal. Studying for this exam forces me to focus on specific topics and elements of our industry that I would otherwise probably leave in the shadowy dark corner of being "kind of familiar with but don't really know the answer". Obtaining that specific designation will also set our company apart from the competition. So this may also be an alternative for you to seek. Studying for this exam, in and of itself, will be less expensive than the "formal" education of a college. I have simply decided to combine the two.

Good luck and good for you for wanting to further your education.

Sylvia
 
Re: I\'m calling B.S.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I'd like some input from the peanut gallery, though..



[/ QUOTE ]

Whats a peanut gallery? where does this saying come from?

thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

it comes from the days of American vaudeville performances. the cheapest seats in the house, and subsequently the loudest hecklers and ruffians, were called the "peanut gallery" because of the inexpensive roasted peanuts served to them.

Thanks all for the responses, I will have to read them all more carefully and do some research before I have much to add. Thanks!
 
Re: I\'m calling B.S.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I'd like some input from the peanut gallery, though..



[/ QUOTE ]

Whats a peanut gallery? where does this saying come from?

thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

it comes from the days of American vaudeville performances. the cheapest seats in the house, and subsequently the loudest hecklers and ruffians, were called the "peanut gallery" because of the inexpensive roasted peanuts served to them.



[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, never knew that. So treebuzz is full of cheapskates, ruffians, loud hecklers and peanut eaters? Thats cool.

Vaudeville_theatre.jpg
 
Re: I\'m calling B.S.

[ QUOTE ]

So treebuzz is full of cheapskates, ruffians, loud hecklers and peanut eaters?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the internet in general.
 
Re: I\'m calling B.S.

Okay, I will share my story.
I have obtained my BS in General Biology (with classes in woody plant identification, plant taxonomy, forestry, etc), and I am currently working on my masters (Doing molecular level identification of the family Salicaceae, willows and poplars). I have a little over a year of climbing and tree work under my belt. I sent my resume to every tree company in the area this summer, hoping to find a position, even part time. Got absolutely nothing. My degree has not done a single thing for me thus far, besides throw me 40 grand in student loan debt. I have grad school paid for (by teaching), so at least I am not falling farther in debt. I do, however, have to find another job since my teaching income isn't making ends meet. Maybe it is the economy, who knows? My theory is wait around awhile, if you are successful in what you are doing, keep doing it, at least for now. When things "pick up", it would probably be a better time to start classes. There are so many graduates out there with absolutely no prospects in employment.
 
Re: I\'m calling B.S.

u are on the right track,keep learning and get into the industry as much as u can,so u can keep meeting people...it is tough times all around,but the tree work is still going and growing...hang in there good thins will happen fore sure
 
Re: I\'m calling B.S.

follow up...
turned in my notice, applied for FA, my wife found a good job, I start school in September. I haven't bothered to declare a major... I've got several discordant ideas on what I'd like to do.
 
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