How significant of a gain would I get by swapping an Oregon 91 bar to the thinner Stihl 12" dime/quarter tipped?

[eyehearttrees]

I just saw a video comparing two saws and the thinness of these Stihl bars, compared to the ubiquitous Oregons that come on nearly everything (well, lower-end stuff that I buy!)
I'd originally thought that no bar or chain would be such a powerful difference that it'd warrant the $$, but seeing the thin cuts the Stihl bars&chains make has me thinking that my lil 25cc powerhead will kick WAY harder if it's pushing that thinner chain (heck I put a 14" or 16" on the powerhead to see how it responded and it was so quick to bog down it was insane)

I feel like the difference gained with these thin chains is something akin to using a shorter bar on your powerhead in that the differences/advantages are only/mostly obvious on the smaller units like my 25cc top-handle, honestly I don't know why those thinner Stihl-type bars aren't the norm for all 14" and smaller units it's just insane, when I saw the Stihl chain head-to-head with the standard Oregon type it was nuts (both saws cut at the same speed but I'd say the 540xp beat the 200t because, if the 540xp had the Stihl's thinner bar&chain it'd have to cut a thinner line/less wood and therefore cut *faster*, am amazed that thin isn't default for all climb saws :/ )

Any thoughts on swapping-up would be greatly appreciated, am also unsure about the quarter-nose and dime-nose varieties, I'd initially thought they were for carvers/sculptors but swear some of the climbers in youtubes have them (want to say Hunicke has one on the CS2511t he demo's), was kinda surprised at the price for this upgrade but figure it'd be a longer-term thing so want to go for it if it'd give me a noticeable difference when using the saw!! Thanks

 

[eyehearttrees]

Found people coming at it the opposite way in this thread:

sithl 192T with .50 bar?

does anyone run a .50 bar and chain on a stihl 192T. im tired of buying the .43 chains cause they bend to easily. i wonder if i have to change the sprocket out to allow for the wider chain?

www.treebuzz.com

Where a guy with a 192t is asking about swapping-up to a 0.50", there isn't an overwhelming amount of support for doing it which makes me think even more that it could a smart purchase (ie make a noticeable difference!) to upgrade to Stihl bar&chain at narrower width, would love to hear if people have done this and actually noticed a difference!!

 

[Crimsonking]

I’ve run narrow kerf bars on top handles. It’s all in what you’re willing to trade for either way. Faster, more precise cutting on a bar that’s easier to bend when pinched vs a larger, slower cutting bar that can take more abuse. The chains are also a consideration, as I have noticed the teeth on the narrow chains can break more easily.

If you like running a 16” bar, the narrower bar gives you the length without sacrificing power, which is nice.

 

[RBJtree]

I think the thinner bar and chain does make a difference in cutting speed. I don't pinch my climbing saw, most of the time, so it's not an issue for me. What I don't like about the .043 chains is I can't find one that has normal rakers. They all have the "low kickback" rakers which just kills the agressiveness of the chain, especially after a few sharpenings. I don't have time to deal with the extra rakers and figure out how to make those chains cut how I want, so I just buy the aggressive .050 chain, keep it real sharp, and put it on my modded 201tc.

 

[Birdyman88]

Regarding the chains, my experience on 30cc and 25cc saws has been that the Stihl .050 full chisel safety PS3 is fastest by a mile (and still smooth), the Oregon .050 long semi chisel PXL the second fastest, and the Stihl .043 semi PMM3 just behind the Oregon. The Stihl .043 feels the smoothest, the Oregon the least smooth. The Oregon .050 has the raker closer to the cutter initially, so you get a steeper angle of attack and bigger chip, but also more chatter. The Stihl .043 has a short cutter, with the raker farther away which gives smaller chip but smoother cut. The full chisel blows both away.
As far as the bar and kick, I can say doing a bore cut with a 2511 using the regular Echo bar and the .050 PXL chain is damn near impossible, and kickback is minimal. I can bore cut with the Stihl .043 PMM3 decently well, and kickback is still minimal. Neither is the carving bar. Bore cut with the latter bar would be impossible I would think.

I still am not ready to go put .043 on my 2511 looking for speed. I'm not yet totally convinced I would gain anything. I would gain the smoothness of a smaller chip and maybe a slight speed bump to go with it. But, I would lose the aggressive cut of the .050 PXL chain. When I wear out my last PXL chain, Im gonna get my dealer to make up a full chisel Stihl PS3 for my 2511, thats what I will run.

But for straight up small pruning, speed aside, .043, or 1/4 pitch is unbeatable.

 

[mattbever]

I run a gently modded Stihl 193t with 1/4 pitch chain on a 14" bar and its my go to saw for taking the tops out of a removal or pruning work that requires cuts up to @ 12” diameter.

I carried a 200t around for a long time before switching to t540 but the weight savings and the ability to cut just as fast with the 193t have made it worth the sacrifice of durability...I’m not as hard on my equipment as I once was.

FYI, I do a lot of white pine and soft maples so that could be a factor in my decision.

 

[Roger_Barnett]

Agreed, Birdyman. I don't like the 043 bar/chain combo. I run PS63 (full chisel) on my climb saws, which include muffler modded 192T's.. Way faster, more aggressive, less prone to chain throw, perhaps. I won't run those small saws stock as they are too gutless. I only have one or two .043 bars and chains, and think the chains might be safety, which limits their ability to bore cut, should that need arise.

 

[dsptech]

I run .043 Oregon on all my top handle saws, two echo cs-355t, and a 193T.
The narrow kerf makes a appreciable difference in speed and smoothness.
New Oregon chains seem to have their rakers set a bit too aggressive and after a couple of sharpenings the chain runs way smoother.
Keep your raker height filed correctly to maintain performance.

 

[evo]

It’s all a balance. Most folks don’t run a 404 chain on a 16” bar on a 90cc saw. Same goes to the other extreme.
However there is some cross over. The dealer who I bought my 261 which came with a 20” .325 chain refused to put a 18” 3/8 .050 chain/sprocket/bar on it. Telling me it wouldn’t cut well and be useless. I find it a waste to carry extra .325 chains, when all my other non top handles run the same 3/8ths and all the bars can interchange with each other. Sometimes putting that same 18” bar on a 461 is what the job calls for. Sometimes taking the 20” bar off the 361 and putting it on the 261 is what the job calls for. BUT the lower the cc’s the less tolerance you can get away with.
Now that I converted it to what I originally wanted, it’s my go to saw between a 150 and a 461.
Those 1/4 chains can be a PITA to sharpen, fragile, and bars bend super easy. I stock up on bars for the 150 buying two at a time for spares. The echo 2511 comes stock with a larger pitch, and many have found swapping to the 12” 1/4 Stihl improves the 2511 well beyond the 150 when stock. Even more when modded.

 

[Birdyman88]

FYI, I do a lot of white pine and soft maples so that could be a factor in my decision.

I'm glad you said that, because I do a lot of hardwood, mainly oak. My chain preference is admittedly biased toward that. I just can't get the Stihl .043 stuff to bite hard enough for my liking in oak, especially after the cutter gets short. It does give me a good bicep workout backchaining 14" oak limbs though, lol. I've never tried the Oregon .043. I'll have to try some.