- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
Altrustic is my word of the day.
Thanks Blinky, well said.
Thanks Blinky, well said.
how many of you rep jesus at work?
- Thread starter Maui Palm & Tree Care
- Start date
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Thank you Jesse. I think if, when you die, if you've given more than you've taken, then you've live a valuable life and that's heaven. ...and I'll bet you go to heaven.
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
[ QUOTE ]
Thank you Jesse. I think if, when you die, if you've given more than you've taken, then you've live a valuable life and that's heaven. ...and I'll bet you go to heaven.
[/ QUOTE ]
I bet you don't. You return to the Earth from which you came.
Thank you Jesse. I think if, when you die, if you've given more than you've taken, then you've live a valuable life and that's heaven. ...and I'll bet you go to heaven.
[/ QUOTE ]
I bet you don't. You return to the Earth from which you came.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
[ QUOTE ]
I think if, when you die, if you've given more than you've taken, then you've live a valuable life and that's heaven. ...and I'll bet you go to heaven.
[/ QUOTE ]
This idea of some sort of life beyond this world makes a lot more sense that that of organized religions where most everyone else is wrong in the world, and the believer and co-followers of the one true religion are right.
Mother Theresa, no introduction necessary, is going to burn in a fiery pit of Hell. My sister-in-law, however, is going to heaven because she believes in the one true god, while her actions don't follow what she beats into my nephews heads. My nephew, who at the time was around 10 years old, asked if I believed in God, and almost started crying as a wave of fear washed over his face when I told him no. He said, "But, but, I don't want you to go to Hell."
In the 20 years that I've known this woman, I have probably done 10:1 or 100:1 good deeds for every one that she has done, and then there is the whole rest, like how I treat my family, strangers, the earth, etc. I'm really stretched as to what good she does. I guess she does a good job at supporting the Starbucks corporate investors, and helping to support the Burger King employees, and all that crap, while my brother is constantly stressed about money,trying to keep foreclosure at bay. Part of what keeps him in the marriage, in addition to not being able to afford a divorce, is that she brainwashed him and the family by finding the one true religion, after trying on several for size. All of those people from the religions that don't fit...yep, pit of Hell.
The supposed teaching of Jesus are good moral lessons. The teaching (actions speaks louder than words) of the organized Church, well...
-Crusades
-Inquisition
-Burning witches at the stake or drowning them
-Acceptance into heaven of mass murderers if they are born again, while the victims burn in hell for not haveing been born again or accepting Jesus into their life or whatever.
-Pretty sure that Jesus never denounced slavery, or it would have ended much earlier in our part of the world. I haven't studied/ read enough of the NT to know for sure. The bible was used to justify slavery--whole son of Ham thing, I think
-Ever sperm is sacred because of the little man that God put in there--oh no, its just a DNA vehicle.
-etc
-etc
Intelligent design- epiglottis anyone. How many innocent children choke to death every year because of the intelligent design of having the breathing function and swallowing function separated by the epiglottis, which doesn't always do its job. The appendix. UTI's from intelligently designing the anus, vagina, and urethera all in one place. Shin bones. Funny bones.
Just warming up.
So far, so civil. So often people get angry at such a subject as how many of the world's Gods exist that they become unwilling to remain civil.
I think if, when you die, if you've given more than you've taken, then you've live a valuable life and that's heaven. ...and I'll bet you go to heaven.
[/ QUOTE ]
This idea of some sort of life beyond this world makes a lot more sense that that of organized religions where most everyone else is wrong in the world, and the believer and co-followers of the one true religion are right.
Mother Theresa, no introduction necessary, is going to burn in a fiery pit of Hell. My sister-in-law, however, is going to heaven because she believes in the one true god, while her actions don't follow what she beats into my nephews heads. My nephew, who at the time was around 10 years old, asked if I believed in God, and almost started crying as a wave of fear washed over his face when I told him no. He said, "But, but, I don't want you to go to Hell."
In the 20 years that I've known this woman, I have probably done 10:1 or 100:1 good deeds for every one that she has done, and then there is the whole rest, like how I treat my family, strangers, the earth, etc. I'm really stretched as to what good she does. I guess she does a good job at supporting the Starbucks corporate investors, and helping to support the Burger King employees, and all that crap, while my brother is constantly stressed about money,trying to keep foreclosure at bay. Part of what keeps him in the marriage, in addition to not being able to afford a divorce, is that she brainwashed him and the family by finding the one true religion, after trying on several for size. All of those people from the religions that don't fit...yep, pit of Hell.
The supposed teaching of Jesus are good moral lessons. The teaching (actions speaks louder than words) of the organized Church, well...
-Crusades
-Inquisition
-Burning witches at the stake or drowning them
-Acceptance into heaven of mass murderers if they are born again, while the victims burn in hell for not haveing been born again or accepting Jesus into their life or whatever.
-Pretty sure that Jesus never denounced slavery, or it would have ended much earlier in our part of the world. I haven't studied/ read enough of the NT to know for sure. The bible was used to justify slavery--whole son of Ham thing, I think
-Ever sperm is sacred because of the little man that God put in there--oh no, its just a DNA vehicle.
-etc
-etc
Intelligent design- epiglottis anyone. How many innocent children choke to death every year because of the intelligent design of having the breathing function and swallowing function separated by the epiglottis, which doesn't always do its job. The appendix. UTI's from intelligently designing the anus, vagina, and urethera all in one place. Shin bones. Funny bones.
Just warming up.
So far, so civil. So often people get angry at such a subject as how many of the world's Gods exist that they become unwilling to remain civil.
rfwoodvt
New member
- Location
- This side of eternity.
What works, works, what doesn't, doesn't.
I start my day off as often as possible with prayer and while I encourage those who work with me to develop their spiritual health there is no one who can say I shove it down their throat.
Believe what you will but the fact remains that despite history and other evidence to suggest deity or randomness of events, we simply don't know where we came from and where we are going.
And until it is lights out none of us here will be any closer to those answers.
For me, I have weighed the evidence both historical and circumstantial.
Religion, like politics, is poison. It encourages corruption and abuse. I am against "Religion" completely.
But a personal relationship with the God of the Universe is where it is at. I have chosen to follow the Triune God called Yahweh, The Great I Am.
My life is the better for it. The lives of those around me are better for it. And there is no reason to think that my spirit will not thrive after this feeble body of mine has collapsed for the final time because of it.
And even if I am wrong, it will still have been worth the effort for my time here and the lasting effects it can have on those whose lives I have touched for the positive.
I start my day off as often as possible with prayer and while I encourage those who work with me to develop their spiritual health there is no one who can say I shove it down their throat.
Believe what you will but the fact remains that despite history and other evidence to suggest deity or randomness of events, we simply don't know where we came from and where we are going.
And until it is lights out none of us here will be any closer to those answers.
For me, I have weighed the evidence both historical and circumstantial.
Religion, like politics, is poison. It encourages corruption and abuse. I am against "Religion" completely.
But a personal relationship with the God of the Universe is where it is at. I have chosen to follow the Triune God called Yahweh, The Great I Am.
My life is the better for it. The lives of those around me are better for it. And there is no reason to think that my spirit will not thrive after this feeble body of mine has collapsed for the final time because of it.
And even if I am wrong, it will still have been worth the effort for my time here and the lasting effects it can have on those whose lives I have touched for the positive.
- Location
- Medina, Ohio
Sean, you get +30
Man, I wish I could type... It would take me 20 minutes to write that post.
I have found that there is usually no point in arguing religion with people, when their one and only defense is blind faith.
Man, I wish I could type... It would take me 20 minutes to write that post.
I have found that there is usually no point in arguing religion with people, when their one and only defense is blind faith.
Crazy_Jimmy
Participating member
- Location
- Texas
I know its long but try and read this.
18For the word of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us who are saved it is the power of God. 1:19For it is written,
I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And the discernment of the discerning will I bring to nought.
1:20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 1:21For seeing that in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom knew not God, it was God's good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe. 1:22Seeing that Jews ask for signs, and Greeks seek after wisdom: 1:23but we preach Christ crucified, unto Jews a stumblingblock, and unto Gentiles foolishness; 1:24but unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 1:25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1:26For behold your calling, brethren, that not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 1:27but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put to shame them that are wise; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong; 1:28and the base things of the world, and the things that are despised, did God choose, yea and the things that are not, that he might bring to nought the things that are: 1:29that no flesh should glory before God. 1:30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption: 1:31that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
18For the word of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us who are saved it is the power of God. 1:19For it is written,
I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And the discernment of the discerning will I bring to nought.
1:20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 1:21For seeing that in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom knew not God, it was God's good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe. 1:22Seeing that Jews ask for signs, and Greeks seek after wisdom: 1:23but we preach Christ crucified, unto Jews a stumblingblock, and unto Gentiles foolishness; 1:24but unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 1:25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1:26For behold your calling, brethren, that not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 1:27but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put to shame them that are wise; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong; 1:28and the base things of the world, and the things that are despised, did God choose, yea and the things that are not, that he might bring to nought the things that are: 1:29that no flesh should glory before God. 1:30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption: 1:31that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
Crazy_Jimmy
Participating member
- Location
- Texas
Organized church founded most hospitals,orphanages and modern education as we know it bro.Evil deluted men masquerading as the church are responsible for Crusades,Inquisition and Burning witches at the stake or drowning them.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
[ QUOTE ]
I have found that there is usually no point in arguing religion with people, when their one and only defense is blind faith.
[/ QUOTE ]
No point in arguing anything. Arguing means to me is to profess your perspective with no openness to another's perspective. Debate on the other hand, is interesting, and can be enlightening. Often people debating is people arguing in disguise.
In college, in a philosophy (101) class, we had different speakers come into the class. A Catholic priest explained the evolution/ history of the covenants between the Christian God and the Chosen People. It was interesting to learn about "You shall have no other Gods before me". The historical context of the the shift from Polytheism to Monotheism was interesting. It says "before me", not that there are no other gods, just that this God was the top dog.
I will say that I have witnessed a supernatural event with my own eyes, and have known numerous people, including the one that shared in my supernatural observation, that have had supernatural experiences with no rational explanation.
I just focus on living right, right now, for its own sake. I figure that it isn't about saying you believe in the right God that would matter in a possible afterlife, but the content of your character and the choices that you make.
Really, any God worth a lick, would welcome a Mother Theresa with open arms, whether it is the Big White Guy in the Sky, Jehovah, etc. I don't know what will happen to my SIL. I'm not that great either, nor are most of us, by comparison to Mother Theresa.
I'm a pretty good guy and all, but am self-serving more than other serving. I live in a comfortable house, and drive a comfortable vehicle, eat good food, etc (more so now than in the past, when I gave up more to follow other paths). I could forgo so much of these things, reduce my standard of living, and use those thousands of dollars to save so many lives in Africa, or in our own back yards.
We all could give up some little things and offer up that money to those in need. My wife and I foster a family in Romania for $40 a month through World Vision, a Christian organization (her idea and initiative, she's a pretty good one). A little here can go so far there, and even farther in Africa.
This is something that people can do, and/ or have some food (soft food that is easy to chew, like a Clif Bar) in the car/ truck with them. When you see a hungry person on the side of the road who is obviously destitute, you can do such an easy thing to alleviate some suffering. If the light is changing and traffic is moving, you can toss it to them as you go by, offer them a "good luck" or "God Bless" or whatever. Make a small donation to the Woman's shelter. Easy things that you know will not go to poor ends (substances) or to scammers.
Most importantly is to Rep the spirit of the teachings of Jesus, as they are good moral lessons.
I have found that there is usually no point in arguing religion with people, when their one and only defense is blind faith.
[/ QUOTE ]
No point in arguing anything. Arguing means to me is to profess your perspective with no openness to another's perspective. Debate on the other hand, is interesting, and can be enlightening. Often people debating is people arguing in disguise.
In college, in a philosophy (101) class, we had different speakers come into the class. A Catholic priest explained the evolution/ history of the covenants between the Christian God and the Chosen People. It was interesting to learn about "You shall have no other Gods before me". The historical context of the the shift from Polytheism to Monotheism was interesting. It says "before me", not that there are no other gods, just that this God was the top dog.
I will say that I have witnessed a supernatural event with my own eyes, and have known numerous people, including the one that shared in my supernatural observation, that have had supernatural experiences with no rational explanation.
I just focus on living right, right now, for its own sake. I figure that it isn't about saying you believe in the right God that would matter in a possible afterlife, but the content of your character and the choices that you make.
Really, any God worth a lick, would welcome a Mother Theresa with open arms, whether it is the Big White Guy in the Sky, Jehovah, etc. I don't know what will happen to my SIL. I'm not that great either, nor are most of us, by comparison to Mother Theresa.
I'm a pretty good guy and all, but am self-serving more than other serving. I live in a comfortable house, and drive a comfortable vehicle, eat good food, etc (more so now than in the past, when I gave up more to follow other paths). I could forgo so much of these things, reduce my standard of living, and use those thousands of dollars to save so many lives in Africa, or in our own back yards.
We all could give up some little things and offer up that money to those in need. My wife and I foster a family in Romania for $40 a month through World Vision, a Christian organization (her idea and initiative, she's a pretty good one). A little here can go so far there, and even farther in Africa.
This is something that people can do, and/ or have some food (soft food that is easy to chew, like a Clif Bar) in the car/ truck with them. When you see a hungry person on the side of the road who is obviously destitute, you can do such an easy thing to alleviate some suffering. If the light is changing and traffic is moving, you can toss it to them as you go by, offer them a "good luck" or "God Bless" or whatever. Make a small donation to the Woman's shelter. Easy things that you know will not go to poor ends (substances) or to scammers.
Most importantly is to Rep the spirit of the teachings of Jesus, as they are good moral lessons.
"Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving." Colossians 3:23-24
Our work is our worship to God. These two words even originate from the same Hebrew word, "avodah".
Our work is our worship to God. These two words even originate from the same Hebrew word, "avodah".
rfwoodvt
New member
- Location
- This side of eternity.
It has been often said of Jesus that he was either a lunatic, liar or Lord.
If he was a lunatic for claiming to be the Son of God then he can and should be readily shuffled off into the non-important category of those best forgotten.
If he was simply a liar claiming status as diety then no matter how "good" his teaching were he rightfully should be cast aside as a person of import.
Even Dr. Mengle of Nazi fame discovered some incredibly important medical truths in his experiments on concentration camp prisoners, mentally challenged people and those with birth defects.
But we have properly relegated him to the trash heap of humanity. yes we can profit by his knowledge but his releveancy to the world is zilch...so if Jesus were a liar, so too should he be thrown on the trash heap.
So that leaves the third possibility, that he was telling the truth and is the Son of God.
So which of the three is correct?
That is up to each of us to decide, on our own. You can't crusade that decision, you cannot inquisite it, you cannot argue it and you cannot beat it into people.
Each of us comes to that point in our lives, sometimes many times, where we have to answer that question.
Was/Is Jesus a lunatic, liar or Lord?
Does the way you answer that question really make a difference? Perhaps, perhaps not.
Maybe it is just one of those things that plays out as it will. We've all seen evidence in our lives of small threads that lead to something significant in our lives.
This is another of those decisions we end up making that may or may not make a difference. But at least it is a decision you can get out of the way and not worry about after the fact.
Myself, I've concluded that He was who He said He was. And though I still have my moments of questioning my faith, my conclusion invariably returns to Him.
If he was a lunatic for claiming to be the Son of God then he can and should be readily shuffled off into the non-important category of those best forgotten.
If he was simply a liar claiming status as diety then no matter how "good" his teaching were he rightfully should be cast aside as a person of import.
Even Dr. Mengle of Nazi fame discovered some incredibly important medical truths in his experiments on concentration camp prisoners, mentally challenged people and those with birth defects.
But we have properly relegated him to the trash heap of humanity. yes we can profit by his knowledge but his releveancy to the world is zilch...so if Jesus were a liar, so too should he be thrown on the trash heap.
So that leaves the third possibility, that he was telling the truth and is the Son of God.
So which of the three is correct?
That is up to each of us to decide, on our own. You can't crusade that decision, you cannot inquisite it, you cannot argue it and you cannot beat it into people.
Each of us comes to that point in our lives, sometimes many times, where we have to answer that question.
Was/Is Jesus a lunatic, liar or Lord?
Does the way you answer that question really make a difference? Perhaps, perhaps not.
Maybe it is just one of those things that plays out as it will. We've all seen evidence in our lives of small threads that lead to something significant in our lives.
This is another of those decisions we end up making that may or may not make a difference. But at least it is a decision you can get out of the way and not worry about after the fact.
Myself, I've concluded that He was who He said He was. And though I still have my moments of questioning my faith, my conclusion invariably returns to Him.
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
[ QUOTE ]
Spirituality is personal and one can pray or mumble to their creator anytime. I don't support ANY organized religion because organization is where the corruption is.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah ... I've heard that a lot over the years, and quickly realized that the only alternative to the "organized" being criticized would be "disorganized".
Lovers of disorganization may well be equally worth avoiding for counsel, if not more so.
Little in this world functions well disorganized. Not business, not religion, not families, not education.
Critics sometimes confuse organization with immorality like being power hungry, greedy, etc..
Spirituality is personal and one can pray or mumble to their creator anytime. I don't support ANY organized religion because organization is where the corruption is.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah ... I've heard that a lot over the years, and quickly realized that the only alternative to the "organized" being criticized would be "disorganized".
Lovers of disorganization may well be equally worth avoiding for counsel, if not more so.
Little in this world functions well disorganized. Not business, not religion, not families, not education.
Critics sometimes confuse organization with immorality like being power hungry, greedy, etc..
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
It's hard to imagine that humans have the same purpose and future as any other animal....our egos sure get in the way. There are many beautiful and not so beautiful philosophies in this world but they all serve one basic purpose. Whatever gets you through the night.
Here's to peace, love and understanding!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlXeLgfBaT4&feature=related
Here's to peace, love and understanding!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlXeLgfBaT4&feature=related
TC
Participating member
[ QUOTE ]
i started praying before work with my ground crew, of course they have the option to not but they tend to follow along. so i was wondering how many of you kick it with the holy spirit at work?
[/ QUOTE ]
'kick it with the holy spirit'
kick what?
Like MC5's 'Kick out the Jams'? is that what you mean?
if you want to play 'Kick out the Jams' thru your ghetto blaster at full volume while I drag brush to the chipper then go for it man!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XhQRFO4M7A&feature=related
peace
.
i started praying before work with my ground crew, of course they have the option to not but they tend to follow along. so i was wondering how many of you kick it with the holy spirit at work?
[/ QUOTE ]
'kick it with the holy spirit'
kick what?
Like MC5's 'Kick out the Jams'? is that what you mean?
if you want to play 'Kick out the Jams' thru your ghetto blaster at full volume while I drag brush to the chipper then go for it man!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XhQRFO4M7A&feature=related
peace
.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
While I was thinking about something else, it flashed through my brain about the negative 30 IQ comment, and my ending of my post about remaining pretty civil. I realized that this was basically an overt slam on religious people. People joked well about it.
I think that its true that whatever gets you through the day is what is most important.
I know that part of my firm stance on the idea is that historically and presently, atheists have been treated as second class citizens, abnormal, morally corrupt, etc. Frequently, the in-your-face religious types try to establish a superiority on many levels if you are an atheist, or even an agnostic. An very "Christian" acquaintance of mine asked how could someonne know the difference between right and wrong if they didn't go to church and study the bible. He was baffled by it and 100% serious.
Just thought I'd put that out there.
Our neighbors are very religious, and are some of our favorite people. We will be sad to see them move. They are sorta parent-types and friends at the same time to us, as Amy and I are far from home, and their children have move away.
I think that its true that whatever gets you through the day is what is most important.
I know that part of my firm stance on the idea is that historically and presently, atheists have been treated as second class citizens, abnormal, morally corrupt, etc. Frequently, the in-your-face religious types try to establish a superiority on many levels if you are an atheist, or even an agnostic. An very "Christian" acquaintance of mine asked how could someonne know the difference between right and wrong if they didn't go to church and study the bible. He was baffled by it and 100% serious.
Just thought I'd put that out there.
Our neighbors are very religious, and are some of our favorite people. We will be sad to see them move. They are sorta parent-types and friends at the same time to us, as Amy and I are far from home, and their children have move away.
Religion is manmade, plain and simple. Christianity is a relationship with the living Lord!! We, humans, tend to screw up even the best of things!
Crazy_Jimmy
Participating member
- Location
- Texas
"Religion is the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or in general a set of beliefs explaining the existence of and giving meaning to the universe, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs"From Wikipedia,
James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world."
Obviously Religion is not all bad if its what God desires.For some reason religion is a bad word now,so people try to say christianty is not a religion so people arent turned away.But scripture seems to be clear on what is desired of true religion.I agree it is a relatinship with the one tru God, but by scriptures on admission it described as a religion.Regardless it doesnt matter how one describes it- we all are commanded to turn from our sins,believe and repent to the one true God Christ Jesus.
James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world."
Obviously Religion is not all bad if its what God desires.For some reason religion is a bad word now,so people try to say christianty is not a religion so people arent turned away.But scripture seems to be clear on what is desired of true religion.I agree it is a relatinship with the one tru God, but by scriptures on admission it described as a religion.Regardless it doesnt matter how one describes it- we all are commanded to turn from our sins,believe and repent to the one true God Christ Jesus.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
To add on to my earlier point, after further thought, as an analogy,
In the thoughts of an atheist, to not believe in the teachings and morals of the bible, and the bible as a divine text, obviously translated and rewritten/ reprinted by human hands,
is the same as not living one's live according to the teaching and morals of the story of The Lord of the Rings. Good and Evil, friendship, love, loyalty, miraculous happenings, defending one's own, and believing it is a divine text.
I believe that the bibles of the world and oral traditions of the world make for historical documents and lessons of the socially and politically events acceptable/ unacceptable of the time in which they were written. History is also written by the winners, so the losers of battles, who had their libraries burned, will not have their texts passed on.
Its is part of the human condition that people try to explain the origin of the world and the world around them. Modern science has explained so much that has previously be the actual workings of a greater being, then revised to be the play-out of the creations of the greater being. For example, God created the world in seven literal days. The revised version is seven figurative days of God-time, which spans billions of years of human time.
In the thoughts of an atheist, to not believe in the teachings and morals of the bible, and the bible as a divine text, obviously translated and rewritten/ reprinted by human hands,
is the same as not living one's live according to the teaching and morals of the story of The Lord of the Rings. Good and Evil, friendship, love, loyalty, miraculous happenings, defending one's own, and believing it is a divine text.
I believe that the bibles of the world and oral traditions of the world make for historical documents and lessons of the socially and politically events acceptable/ unacceptable of the time in which they were written. History is also written by the winners, so the losers of battles, who had their libraries burned, will not have their texts passed on.
Its is part of the human condition that people try to explain the origin of the world and the world around them. Modern science has explained so much that has previously be the actual workings of a greater being, then revised to be the play-out of the creations of the greater being. For example, God created the world in seven literal days. The revised version is seven figurative days of God-time, which spans billions of years of human time.
[ QUOTE ]
I've known plenty of highly intelligent christians but to the last one, they were deliberately ignorant of all the evidence that brings a christian god into question... and there are mountains of such evidence which lies in direct conflict with christian teachings.
[/ QUOTE ]
question: how do you know the wind blows? can you see it? no but you can see it's effects. can you feel it? yes. can you hear it? sometimes easily and sometimes you have to listen really really hard. to me that is the way god works. in our day in time we are self absorbed and over stimulated. thus our sudden conclusion that "god is no where to be seen" and "well i haven't talk to him like moses at the burning bush or seen jesus feed five thousand off a couple of fish and a loaf of bread." damn the fact that five thousand people were apart of this feeding!(do a little research and you will find that this is as much historical fact as the titanic sinking) it has to be a catholic conspiracy! a control method if you will. i personally don't believe in religion. i believe in Christ who came to FREE us from religious tyranny. meaning we don't have to ask a priest to forgive our sins! we can ask the man himself! the man god was crucified by the equivalent of our pope, priest, bishops, preachers, and believers/followers of these people! so my question to the people that say they haven't seen god or felt his presence or had a public conversation with his holiness: who are you that you are so important that god manifest in all his holiness so that you may believe? who are you that questions the plans of the lord almighty the maker of the heavens and the earth? who am i is the question that you should ask yourself and where do you fit in this crazy world. Christ had the kiss principle "love your neighbor (all of the other people in the world) as you love yourself and love your lord god above all." let him do all the planing; its our job just to figure out our part in the plan and then do your part; everyones part is different. in my very humble opinion
I've known plenty of highly intelligent christians but to the last one, they were deliberately ignorant of all the evidence that brings a christian god into question... and there are mountains of such evidence which lies in direct conflict with christian teachings.
[/ QUOTE ]
question: how do you know the wind blows? can you see it? no but you can see it's effects. can you feel it? yes. can you hear it? sometimes easily and sometimes you have to listen really really hard. to me that is the way god works. in our day in time we are self absorbed and over stimulated. thus our sudden conclusion that "god is no where to be seen" and "well i haven't talk to him like moses at the burning bush or seen jesus feed five thousand off a couple of fish and a loaf of bread." damn the fact that five thousand people were apart of this feeding!(do a little research and you will find that this is as much historical fact as the titanic sinking) it has to be a catholic conspiracy! a control method if you will. i personally don't believe in religion. i believe in Christ who came to FREE us from religious tyranny. meaning we don't have to ask a priest to forgive our sins! we can ask the man himself! the man god was crucified by the equivalent of our pope, priest, bishops, preachers, and believers/followers of these people! so my question to the people that say they haven't seen god or felt his presence or had a public conversation with his holiness: who are you that you are so important that god manifest in all his holiness so that you may believe? who are you that questions the plans of the lord almighty the maker of the heavens and the earth? who am i is the question that you should ask yourself and where do you fit in this crazy world. Christ had the kiss principle "love your neighbor (all of the other people in the world) as you love yourself and love your lord god above all." let him do all the planing; its our job just to figure out our part in the plan and then do your part; everyones part is different. in my very humble opinion
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
You know I respect you Jeff but we differ on this one. I didn't suddenly come to this conclusion, it took a long time. I was raised a practicing Christian. There is much I believe in that I can't see because evidence like you describe is there. For Jesus, I see no such evidence... at least not that he is the son of the one true god.
The miracles Jesus performed are sketchy history with no lasting evidence to support them. Jesus fed thousands and the Spartans held at Thermopile... we know SOMETHING like that happened but we don't know exactly what. It's not the same as the Titanic which has been visited and photographed recently... but even with the Titanic and all the careful logging sailors are known for... we still don't know many of the details. What is certain though is... there was no magic, there has never been any substantial evidence to support magic anywhere, god's or anybody else's.
And Mario, nothing is organized. You're fooling yourself. Life is chaotic no matter how much you try to control it. Humans are NOT in control... if anything, so called organizations are the most out of control entities in existence. I love how people think they're in control of there lives and then something happens beyond there little sphere of control and suddenly it's god time.
You don't learn how to control it dude! You learn to like being out of control! an old friend on a river, about 1989
The miracles Jesus performed are sketchy history with no lasting evidence to support them. Jesus fed thousands and the Spartans held at Thermopile... we know SOMETHING like that happened but we don't know exactly what. It's not the same as the Titanic which has been visited and photographed recently... but even with the Titanic and all the careful logging sailors are known for... we still don't know many of the details. What is certain though is... there was no magic, there has never been any substantial evidence to support magic anywhere, god's or anybody else's.
And Mario, nothing is organized. You're fooling yourself. Life is chaotic no matter how much you try to control it. Humans are NOT in control... if anything, so called organizations are the most out of control entities in existence. I love how people think they're in control of there lives and then something happens beyond there little sphere of control and suddenly it's god time.
You don't learn how to control it dude! You learn to like being out of control! an old friend on a river, about 1989
