how are your apprentices treated?

bigshea13

bigshea13

Location
ny/canadian border washington state for now
does anyone in hear actually do line clearence work?......
i never see or hear much new in this section the only way ive seen new posts is to stir up [bad word] on one and wait for someone to jump in.
does anyone work as a sub for a utility. what do you get for travel pay...per diem..? how far do ya are you expected to travel before they pay your per diem or travel.
i just moved cross country to have a whirl at the west coast circuits and i gotta tell ya ....im disappionted at the results. i dont know about the rest of the country, but in local 910 outta syracuse, ny i had it dicked. compared to the agreement of 77 i cant believe the [bad word] im seeing out here. guys are driving from an hour above me to work 30 min below me while im cruising an hour north to work in their home town.
i saw an apprentice today on his way 2 hours north today for work. 2 FRIGGIN HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO MILEAGE OR PERDIEM. all the apprentices were told that they cant refuse work because they were apprentices. what a crock of bullshit. who does this [bad word]. these apprentices that come to work everyday and drag the brush and feed the chippers and grease the truck, and wrap up our rope and on and on and on. they dont deserve that. how can you justify, with the price of gas, sendind someone that far away each day for 17.00 an hour an no travel or extra pay. on a 5 day week those poor bastards have driven 1/2 their working week of 40 hr again. not to mention that they have"class" on saturdays. that they pay for.
your best training is in the field...hands on. if the committee does think they get the training they need at work then they better check into the foremen. i get just as much done as ANYBODY else and my apprentice knows he can ask me anything at any time. if i dont know the answer...i find it for him. he gets the opportunity to participate in all aspects of the game....because soon enough he have to do the teaching.
the foremen that are using their guys solely as paid labor....you suck. and ill bet your work sucks! the apprentices that are with me are a direct reflection of myself. we have one of the most dangerous jobs around. any monkey can rig down a tree ...but we have to remove them from every situation and the power is ALWAYS there. we cant afford to mess up. we have to be on it all the time or somebody could die. these ground guys pounded into the ground then forced to drive rediculous hour to work is a safety hazard. they are tired by the time they get there and after a week or so it shows.{to no fault of their own}
thats just a small portion of my rant on the handeling of apprentices by the union:committee. who are these people that make this stuff up? do they forget their days at the bottom of the trees?
i stand firm when say that so far i have so far seen no real leadership from this so called apprenticeship committe or the union for that matter. this leaves it up to us to battle the contractor alone. for many they fear the conflict for they are worried of a lay off or being moved across the state in order to keep their jobs.
we as utility arborist are looked down upon in many cases. much of it is due to lack of knowlege and skill displayed in doing the work. i could never figure out why guys i worked next to only cared about only what they had to during the day and nothing more. im starting to sort of understand...why give to something that isnt going to give back.
from what ive seen...the yo yos doing the training, it would hurt them to go threw a bit more of it themselves.
 
Apprentice? What is this "apprentice" of which you speak?
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yeah apprentice. its the first ive ever seen it in this industry but ive only worked onthe east coast till now. its a fairly new program implimented by some committee affiliated with the ubion hall and the contractors. one more way the contractor can fck the guys over for longer meanwhile the hall tries to look good by generating"union certified" men. its bullshit but now that ive seen it first hand id like to know what anyone else thinks about it.
its keep the wages low and the guys vulnerable not to mention the stipulations attached. its a good way to deter good help from signing on and sticking with it.
 
Sounds like you are more pissed at the union. Talk to your "Representation" about it. That is what you chose to be in, right?

As far as the men driving great distances...........Did they agree to do this at the time of hiring?

If they find the drive time to be a problem.....Why don't they quit and find better employment elsewhere?

I do know in our operation, it is specifically stated in the interview that the all employees are responsible for their own transportation to the designated show up site. We explain to them where our territory is and they agree to it. And have had no issues with this.
 
quit and find better employment? that simple ehh? wow. i wish my life like that. we are way underpaid to begin with. the money the utiliities rake in annually and the money the contractors recieve. big buisness and guys like us make it happen. yet despite the retirement at 65{all used up by then}and the pention my girlfriend brings home the same amount each week as i do and she works half the hours waiting tables&gt;&gt;@#? look at the price of gas in the last 6 months not to mention a year or two ago when the men may have signed on.
back home we get paid vacation and holidays. pay a buck or two under the west coasts. inclimate weather. the same beny packet{ not sure yet but i think its better}. and best of all we can hand pick new workers{groundies usually} you dont get any jo off the street.
and as far as the union goes...........they re as bad as congress. i think most of the officials in most unions forget that they work for the workers. nope....they live the life while we work it.
besides...if we are going to have a strong utiliy TREE workewrs union we need a whole new approach. first off we need one that is specifically for the TREE worker ..not tied in with the line guys. they get way better [bad word] than us and they can turn it off to work on it. plus the reps usually put trees second to line.
second we need to put more money in the workers pockets and less in the reps and the contractors.
as far as complaining to the union or trying to reform the problem....one person is just a ripple and there aint enough willing to confront to make a wave.
the people that dont have the luxery to just "find a better job" stick it out take the [bad word]. some stay because they enjoy the work...not the games that come with it.
 
I understand where you come from. To treat your apprentices like that really does nothing for them. They deserve fair treatment and representation from their union. The electrical unions are typically biased towards linemen because of the work they do. Utility arborist is now a recognized trade in Ontario much the same as electricians, linemen, millwrights, etc. However, we are not yet paid the same because as my management says we are already set up in the bargaining unit as a separate class. They feel we do not yet qualify for trade status.

I have a lineman on the crew that is just waiting to get transferred over to lines. His attitude can be frustrating at times. His theory is that for as long as there have been lines a lineman has been cutting trees. Therefore, he can do his job as well as mine. Three months ago he didn't even know what a tautline hitch was until i showed him.

It boils down to respect and within the utility industry our trade does not have much. I guarantee we work just as hard if not harder but are not paid or treated the same.

I've even been thinking about a different job just to better myself within the company because the prospect of dragging brush and busting my butt for another 20 years just isn't appealing to me anymore.

Later
 
your last paragraph seems to be the main themes in alot of cases. and if a groundman feels that way right out ofthe shoot how are you expected to change his mind and attitude when your treating them like the bottom of the barrel. we ve ALL been the new guy. some are just quicker to forget....maybe they werent subject to enough of that position or maybe its a power trip thing...i dont know. but what i do know is that its a team effort. we all rely on each other to get it done safely and efficiently and the guys on the bottom will hopefully rise to the top . it all starts with the guy directly in charge. as far as the unions go.........im not even going to comment on that one. ive been in the utility trade for 10 years and there is still something for me to learn every day....sometime i learn it from watching the guy on the ground.
 
local 876 UP ofMI. Apprentices aren't treated any worse than the rest ie NO per diem no travel time nothing .If job is 120 miles one way .big orange says tough #### &gt;If Manage ment comes to vist crews .In summer only they stay the night &amp; company pays .Had enough myself .Talk mean line of safety #### but NO experienced help left to teach new guys.BIG ACCident soon it's in the wind
 
Wow,sounds like you work for a great union and company. Our crews are paid per diem (85$) after 50 miles of there yard. Pre-apprentices and apprentices are treated well, the're well trained and are not stuck on the ground based on experience and abilites. I personaly do not work line clearance, I do oversee 3 to 4 crews that work what I set up. I do recieve most of the training that my crews do. The crews work directly for the utility, so this may explain why the treatment is good. You still see the wage seperation from the other trades that work on/near high voltage lines.
 
well i work for local 17 here in southeastern michigan, and the hall ussally trys to get apprentices and j-men to the closet yards that they can. but it dosent always work out.

and the way that they are treated is totaly based on how they work or attitude, if the guys drags his balls off as a woodsman and dosent complian the better chance he will have to climb. but if he crys and moans you can sure bet he will be draging all day and getting his one tree he is intilled to a day. but are appertinceship program has 5 steps and i see t-1s (lowest level) guys pulling hang and roping only if they are good enough, but i have seen t-3s slip thru and can't even trim a pine with out being talked thru it. and i am glad i work for a union we are safe and look out for our brothers. know if you want to talk about the other part of michigan thats another story.
 
I have seen guys slip through the cracks as well, have seen some fall flat on their faces as well. The problem usually lies with the apprentice not wanting to try, never voluntering to at least start tougher jobs etc...
 
I too work for local 17 in Michigan. When I was hired in they moved me within 15 minutes of my house. It was great. The farthest I've driven so far is 45 minutes, which even that isn't bad compared to some of the stories I've heard of in the past. Supposedly, the union has made changes into the apprentice guidelines that are helping get line clearance accepted as a skilled trade by the labor board instead of "a bunch of yahoos swingin in the trees."
I don't know about other parts of the country but I have seen trees that were trimmer in TN and states down that way and they are all stubbed out and what not. I was taught since day one to leave limbs to leaders and the correct way to trim and that is what the apprentice committee stressed when I went through the ranks. It should be stressed everywhere so we are recognized as a skilled trade, so we have better pull at bargaining agreements and the like.
Another thing to always keep in mind is that one day you might be working for that apprentice that you hassled and were a dick to last week. I know for one that I wont forget some of the stuff that went down when I was a T2 or a T3.
I am fortunate enough to say that I work for one of the best companies around right now and hope to for a long time. They are great to their apprentices and workers alike. Sorry to hear about the way others have to work. The other companies just need some genuinely good people in management instead of some money hungry sharks. My opinion...
 
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