Hitch Hiker in Comps

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Or climbing in DdRT with a Rope Wrench above the hitch?

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Why?

Tony

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Just as Banjo said, the climber and victim can be on the same line. Mac Swan and I used this very technique for a spar rescue and the control is great.

Also, if you're adding a F-8 below a normal DdRT hitch to keep things cool on a long/faster descent, you may find that the RW does a much better job of this, since it keeps things cleaner, and doesn't hockle the rope. You can really fly down a DdRT descent with the RW incorporated, and have incredible control without compromising the hitch.
 
I understand all that. I think there are better ways. However, I don't believe that was the reason it was used in Portland although that was the technique.
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Tony
 
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My understanding is that the RW has not been allowed do to the grey area in regards to it being life support.

The Hitch Hiker however was tested by Yale in various configurations and setups set forth by the ISA. It has a listed MBS of 40kn, and is designed and sold as a piece of dedicated SRWP life support equipment.

Are there specific provisions against base ties? Or using a single line in general? I read that the issue is equipment oriented. The Petzl ID is allowed yes? Because it was designed/tested/produced for SRWP, isnt the HH in the same boat?

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That would be silly if the rw were not allowed because its not life support. That doesn't make any sense.
 
I think all this debate has been going on far long enough. Who ever is responsible for making the rules need to come out with a definitive answer to SRWP questions. I hate going to comps and not knowing what to expect, in Charlotte you have one set of rules, at NATCC you'll have another set of rules, and when I go to NYTCC the rules will be some where in between.
 
I think this rule in AR is one of the sticking points, perhaps the only reference to "lateral movement" on a static line:


4.2.15 If a contestant enters the tree using an approved secured footlock technique (Prusik loop or handled ascenders), the contestant must, if required, lanyard in, and then tie in with an approved climbing hitch before beginning to move laterally in the tree. The maximum allowable distance of the lateral movement prior to the contestant tying in with an approved climbing hitch will be pre-determined by the event head judge. The first offense will generate a warning; a second offense will generate a disqualification.)(2012)

One could argue that a HH or RW assist on a single static line IS an approved climbing hitch, but....
...new rules coming out in March - we'll see.
 
Thanks Oceans!

2.2.24 Neither the prussick hitch nor, any other approved friction hitch, shall be used for descent unless part of a dynamic overhead belay system.

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That does it right there.
 
One could argue...one could interpret that as dynamic (dynamic climbing line) overhead (cinched, choked, etc...overhead) belay system (climbing system such as DdRT).

Can we interpret that a single line could be a dynamic overhead belay system? DdRT is a single line, it simply moves, whereas it doesn't in SRT.
 
How many climbers have their hitches 'overhead'? Most are short...chest/tummy region.

Since I climb on the Uni...it seems to meet all of the requsites as long as I have my harness bridge extended and keep it above my head. Typically it's short, like a chest ascender during ascent or more typically chest level for working.
 
I think you would be seen for exactly what you are doing.: Attempting to interpret from the language something that it clearly doesnt mean. It is common knowledge in terms of tree climbing tech that a dynamic system refers to DRT.

That being said, as we learned from "If the glove doesnt fit, you CANNOT convict" winning isnt necessarily about truth.
 
I don't think that SRT was widely used in tree care when the rules were written, but I'd like an author of the rules to define what a 'dynamic overhead system' is. Is a climber on a dynamic overhead belay system while performing a 'belayed speed climb'? That's a single rope...

Many people are taught to use a running bowline while blocking down a spar. It's a common practice.

Rules are open to interpretation, which is why judges will allow climbers to demonstrate new ideas in private before a competition, to see if the idea is allowable.
 
I wish I knew. Of all pieces of gear, I just can't see why...especially when it's labeled as NOT FOR PRIMARY LIFE SUPPORT...unless that label is the problem?!? The RW is the closest thing to a Sticht Plate, really. Perhaps the RW was not allowed because it's located above the hitch, creating the possibility of disengaging the hitch?
 
Let's face it, when it comes to advancements, innovations, or improvements, we on this forum are the guinea pigs of the industry. We hear about it first, we buy things the minute they hit the shelves (or sooner), and then we expect the rest of the industry to be on board? The overwhelming majority of TCC's are ISA sanctioned, they have a vested interest in making sure that the systems allowed in THEIR comps are tried and true over time. After all it is their name and insurance on the line. I love the fact that we as a community are pushing techniques further and and further but, I also am willing to recognize that the internet has allowed for a boom in the sharing of ideas which in my opinion should be absorbed slowly. We as a community are the ones who say "slow and low" aren't we.
 
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