Has this ever happened to you?

Time for a rant! I will edit as much as possible so read on only if you please.

Received a phone call from a guy who says he is "Lieutenant -----, and I am calling on behalf of ------, and she says that you have not finished your job for her". I asked if this was the police, and he butts in saying "are you going to finish the job or not"! I tried to explain myself, and he butts in again and says "just tell me that you are going to finish the job", to which I reply "I will be right over".

I Have been in business since 07, and this is the first time I have had a complaint, especially one like this.

For some background on the job in question: I took down a dead cottonwood tree on 8/30, for a sweet old lady???? who was elderly enough that she could not come out of the house when I bid on the job, but the job was straight forward enough that I felt comfortable to bid and perform without much explanation. I gave her a cheap bid ($225) because I am a sucker for feeling sorry for people. The tree was 30" dbh, had to be climbed topped and chunked, also mess cleaned up. As I was finishing up the job (had the tree on the ground, most of the wood and brush cleaned up and was doing some raking) She informed me that she had to leave for lunch (driven and assisted by someone else). Anyhow, she gives me a check and leaves and seemed happy with the job. We finished cleaning up, which consisted of raking all small stuff, however some pencil diameter sized twigs (no longer than 2", or anything that a rake would not get, are mixed with gravel in driveway, and mixed with 3 inch thick mat of pine needles on side of driveway that I could not sift out(think rural country setting). Also, I left two small 5 foot tall sucker trees that were branching off the lower root of the dead tree, as I thought she might want them for replacements, which is what most of my clients in the past have wanted.

I received a call from her the afternoon of 9/1 stating that she was sorry she had to leave and was not there when we finished the job, but she did not want the sucker trees left, and maybe we could rake a little better (keep in mind that approximately 50% of my jobs are in settings like this, and I have never had a complaint). I told her the sucker trees would be nothing to clean up, but the twigs? I would see what I could do? Told her that the guy that i sub all my cleanup to was out of town til after labor day, and would that be too long, and if so I would come do it right now (I am 45 miles away) She says that is fine, "no hurry" just as long as it gets done soon.

This morning, not five minutes after I got off the phone with my cleanup guy, talking about this job, and saying it needed to get done today or tomorrow, is when I receive the threatening phone call. I was a little frazzled, but after thinking about it for a few minutes I decide to call the number back that was saved on my phone. It belonged to the local council on aging. I could not believe that someone would call me and threaten me like that! I made sure that the job was cleaned up (took about ten minutes) Called the Client and asked if she was happy with it, of course she says she is, but she is looking out of her window 80 feet away. I again explained to her about the debris mixed with gravel and pine needles to which she replies in a sweet, little old lady, english accent, "that's fine the weather will deal with that, just mainly wanted the little trees taken out, and maybe a little more raking" She also informed me that she was getting her hair done this morning and explained to her friend (I am guessing Lieutenant) that she was a little worried that I would not finish the job. He told her he would take care of it....She said she was sorry, but hoped I understood, and she wished to use me in the future...that is how I felt...USED! This client is fired! I am such a sap for these elderly people that live in way nicer conditions than my family and I do, but I feel sorry for them and give them cheap bids, trying to be a good guy.

Called the place again and asked for the director and explained to him about the phone call, and that I just wanted to talk to the guy who made it, and would take it no further, if he could make this happen. He was very courteous and professional and said he would get to the bottom of it. 10 minutes later the "Lieutenant" calls and is much nicer this time and very apologetic. He tells me this has nothing to do with the council, and that he was "very sorry sir". I explained to him that for future reference not to be making threatening phone calls. He told me he was not threatening and when I asked him if he was a Lieutenant, he says he was in the army. I told him that I knew what his intentions were and was done with the situation, that I just wanted to speak my mind on the matter. Hopefully he does not lose his job.

I may be a little high strung, or proud, but there are certain things that stick in my craw, so I will NOT be bullied by anybody. How many of you feel this way?
 
The dude on the phone was playing games and you busted him so that all worked out pretty good.

The customer? Little old ladies are either really hard or really easy to please but cleanup is where you can really shine with'em. Unless I told to, I clean a site up to better than it was when we got there.

I'm kinda soft with elderly folks, it's just so wrong to take advantage of someone simply because they trust you. I don't want to be anywhere close to that.

Around here, $225 would get a large excurrent tree (30" pine) on the ground safely, limbed and cut into 4' sections, that's falling it straight, no climbing or debris removal.
 
If you don't have a leaf blower you need one. Fluffs up their grass and blasts what the rake won't. I bet the Luet. was looking to impress the ladies. Get them up to his room and show them his medals.

Sure is nice to hear prices from other parts. I'm sure we all think were too low. If I'm making better than a union guy on overtime I figure I'm doing all right. Sometimes I do better but then I have a long off season, where the union guy keeps working year round.
 
Don't take it personally. We're often leave ourselves to guess at what is acceptable for a given person as far as clean up and such goes. I tend to go over the details now with respect to expectations and then clearly state that we can reduce the price for someone on a fixed income by adjusting the work performed. There's always wiggle room though. Gravel and twigs are always a pain. Boreality is right about getting a blower. Big plus to dealing with that stuff.

Good job calling out the Lt. Though in his defense if he works regularly with the elderly, he sees alot of them getting burned and just assumed it was another case.

Live and learn!
 
I understand that we need to look out for elderly people, and I am one of the first people to come to their defense. I am just prideful, and am also defensive about that! In my opinion it was a cowardly act the way he presented himself. I would have been fine if he would have been straight forward with me from the beginning. As for the old lady...most of my clients are elderly, some are persnickety, and some are not, she was not persnickety to my face, but behind my back, which is why I will be more cautious from now on...it just sucks that I have to be! My first complaint in 3 years doing business, it's not so bad!
 
the sweet little old ladies get ya every time

deal with a similar woman, kept pointing asking to cut this and that, strayed FAR from the estimated work order, finally i had had enough, she questioned my ethics saying that i was supposed to top the tree, thats what i said i was going to do, and to not go back on my word

i instantly came out of the tree, took off my gear, walked over to the woman with my work order, asked her to retrieve hers, then walked her through it. She apologized. I said no need to apologize, im more than willing to help but no one questions my ethics. After all was said and done she said she looks forward to using me in the future, I politely smiled, kept my tongue in my cheeck and check in my hand

You did well. I would have busted a gasket if anyone other than the home owner had questioned me.
 
Cody, I can understand your frustration over this. Personally knowing you, we can honestly say that ethics and fair play are your bywords. When you know you are being attacked without justification it really stings.

We have recommended you on many occasions and only heard stellar reports back.

Kudos to you for taking the position of "making it right" for the lady. That is what has to be done; but then, yes, keep this in mind for if she ever does call back or if you get a call from someone who says she recommended you. I'm not saying don't work for them...just keep this in mind for how you will handle the situation.

We have clients that we know we can't leave a single twig (yes, get a blower) and others where they keep insisting you are doing too much. You will have the whole gambit.

What was particularly bad here was the underhanded, behind the back dealing with the issue. I fully agree that our seniors need and deserve protection, but you didn't walk out on a job nor gouge the price. Knowing the type of cottonwoods we have around here to deal with, $225 sounded MORE than fair with full cleanup.

Hmmmm, 45 minutes away should put you in our neck of the woods...glad you took the call.
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Hang in there and keep the Faith!

Sylvia
 
I have been taken advantage of and taken care of by all manner of people, but in general, I find that people that are informed treat you the best. Sometimes that knowledge comes from experience (working class types), other times it comes from wisdom (wealthier folks who have been around a bit), but the worst treatment usually comes from those who are ignorant, who don't appreciate what I have to offer. I try to avoid those clients, but it ain't easy. Over the years, mostly through word of mouth, the good ones find me, and for that I am thankful.

I rarely do anything for $225, let alone chunking down a cottonwood and cleaning it up. Good on you for doing the right thing and handling it the way you did. I'm glad you busted the lieutenant.

-Tom
 
Cody,

I have been in it 13 years.

One thing I have learned over the years is that I like to be appreciated when I cut a great deal for someone. And if I am not, it ALWAYS turns out bad.

There is few things that I hate worse than doing a super cheap job with close to no profit and having a customer upset because "they deserve blah blah blah...".

Actually I just came to the "appreciation" realization a few months back when I did a $600 for 3 men, bobcat t-300, grapple, and chipper for 4 hours. Total of 135K (new value) of equipment on their property for 4 hours PLUS drive time.

Needless to say, I took it up the pants on that one. No profit at all.

That was the job (after 13 years) that I understood that I really like to feel appreciated.

Sure, it is a character defect to put up so much stock in what someone says, but hey, we all have our issues.

Anyway, my point of this whole story is that 2 days ago I bid a job for 1260 that should have been around 2450 and the clients hemed and hawed stating that I was 160 over the price of the "uninsured/cheap" guys in town. They said they would call me back.

After leaving, I felt that all too familiar feeling that I was about to enter into yet another job that would turn out badly.
Even after I lowered my price, they asked "what if you hit the sprinklers" and "when EXACTLY would the debris get cleaned up?"

Instead I would have prefered "WOW! 1260 for ALL THAT! And you are going to give us a 100% 5-star GUARANTEE or the job is FREE!!! WOW!! We REALLY appreciate that level of service for that price! WHERE DO WE SIGN??

But instead they could not see past 160 dollars.

After quite a bit of thought, I decided that if they call back I am going to respectively resend the offer. Even in typing this, I can hear some part of me saying "you should honor your word".

But (just recently louder) part of me is screaming YOU BETTER NOT DO THAT JOB BECAUSE IT IS WAY UNDER BID, THEY ARE GONNA BE BUGGED ABOUT SOMETHING, AND YOU WON'T HAVE ENOUGH PROFIT ON THE JOB TO BACK UP YOUR GUARANTEE AND YOU WILL BUT HEADS WITH THE CLIENT AND IT WONT BE FUN.

Ok, There is the long A$$ story.

BTW... I used to work in Colorado Springs doing thoes cotton woods for cheap too. Here is one of the bigger ones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRILH4mNjIo

After working in the FREEZING cold weather for pennies for too long, I moved to the south where teh season is longer and warmer.

On sat I am pruning this river birch. 6-8 cuts with a poll saw. should take under 8 minutes for everything (plus drive time). $165.

THAT is why I moved to a better market!
 
It sounds low but it could of consisted of minimal branches and a short stem. Hard to say without pictures how each market would bid it. It would be great to post a tree and access situation and arborists from every corner of the world post what their realistic bid would be on it for removal. Living in a rural area with hundreds of unemployed loggers around and everyone else with their own chainsaw is a major challenge.
 
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I may offend some with what I'm going to say, but these are generalized statements about elderly people. They are not true for all...

---Elderly people can be impulsive.

---Elderly people can manipulate to get a deal.


Okay, I'm out of here
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Thanks for your replies. DanielSon...A guy has to have his principles and it sounds like you do, so you will be fine. As for the cheap bid...like I said, I think 400 would be around the going rate for here. Was not an overly complicated job, took about 3 hours from the time I pulled in.
 
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Was not an overly complicated job, took about 3 hours from the time I pulled in.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not bad at all if you were alone. I try to make $60-$100 per man hour, depending on season/demand/degree of difficulty. So for me (I would have used a groundie), that job would have been $350 minimum. I guess we're derailing a bit here, but whatever.

-Tom
 
Is that rate on site productive time and does it include travel and dumping trips? And would 60 be billed as 120/hour for a 2 person crew?
If so I'm in the same ballpark. Is this about the standard for North America? Cause I'm working steady and efficiently but not getting ahead.
 

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