Hands turning dark/purple

Brando CalPankian

Brando CalPankian

Carpal tunnel level member
Location
Pine City, MN
So, I've got a problem.

As some of y'all know, I broke my neck and messed myself up pretty bad in 2021, not tree related.

I've been muscling through, and building the crew has helped a lot.

I also broke both of my wrists this spring.

Recently (last few months) my hands have been turning dark purple, almost black, starting at my finger tips going to the wrists. It seems to be isolated to my hands.

It's not dirt, grease, paint, or any topical affliction. It gets worse when training aerial workers (looking up during the day), running saws, or driving the tractor.

Today is day 3 of a big removal project where I've been training my new lead. I noticed them changing colors yesterday (did a fair bit of ground cutting), and today is significantly worse.

I don't have insurance yet. Employees do, I had to sacrifice this year. It never happened before in my career. I don't feel any pain with it. My fingers will get cold when it's really bad. Taking pressure off my neck by using a special collar thing I have helps.

I'm wondering if it's vibrations from the saws and equipment, or maybe the channels in my neck getting inflamed and causing blood to pool in my hands.

Wondering if anyone's got any info/thoughts on it. It's getting harder for me to back up my team as they grow because my health is deteriorating. Gotta make it another year or two.

Thanks
 

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There are a number of likely answers I'm finding online, Reynaud's is one I am familiar with, as I suffer from it myself to a certain extent. I'm only affected by the cold, though vibrations may make it worse when it is cold.

www.sruk.co.uk

Signs & symptoms of Raynaud's

Raynaud's causes cold fingers and toes as the colour of the skin changes from white to blue to red. It can also cause numbness and pain.
www.sruk.co.uk www.sruk.co.uk

www.healthline.com

What You Need to Know About Peripheral Cyanosis (Blue Hands and Feet)

Peripheral cyanosis may be caused by cold temperatures or a more serious medical issue. Learn more about causes, diagnosis, and treatment.
www.healthline.com www.healthline.com

Are you keeping yourself fully hydrated? Have you tried checking your blood pressure, whether during work hours, or when you are resting in the morning and at night? That might be a good place to start, you can buy a fairly cheap electric blood pressure cuff at Walmart that will be reasonably accurate.
 
The first time it happened I was worried and we'd check blood pressure and everything, elevated arms, gentle heat. No changes. But if you press on the fingers they change color.

I've been taking better care of myself in regards to hydration and eating. It first came on after a nasty stomach bug a couple months ago. I was given a zpac. It seems Reynauds can be caused by immune system issues?

When yours comes on is it just the cold, or does running saws influence it too? It was low 80s today, not really that hot.
 
Brando CalPankian said:
The first time it happened I was worried and we'd check blood pressure and everything, elevated arms, gentle heat. No changes. But if you press on the fingers they change color.

I've been taking better care of myself in regards to hydration and eating. It first came on after a nasty stomach bug a couple months ago. I was given a zpac. It seems Reynauds can be caused by immune system issues?

When yours comes on is it just the cold, or does running saws influence it too? It was low 80s today, not really that hot.
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it looks like there's quite a few different things that can be a cause. Even stress can cause those symptoms, and you seem to be under a lot of stress these days.

For me, it has to be cold out. Vibrating machinery makes it worse though. When I was mowing many years ago in my lawn care days, on a cold day my hands would get so bad there were times I had to use my arms to pry my fingers off of the control levers on the zero turn I would ride. Between the vibration of the engine and the cold air, even on a 45 or 50° day, my hands would freeze up.
 
Probably worth a visit to a doc - a visit shouldn't be a few hundred dollars max. That's not nothing, but its less than 1 month insurance. Our local health system has a 50% discount for self-pay... Ask around.

More self diagnositics... a pulse ox monitor is pretty cheap.
 
ATH said:
Probably worth a visit to a doc - a visit shouldn't be a few hundred dollars max. That's not nothing, but its less than 1 month insurance. Our local health system has a 50% discount for self-pay... Ask around.

More self diagnositics... a pulse ox monitor is pretty cheap.
Click to expand...
Reach said:
it looks like there's quite a few different things that can be a cause. Even stress can cause those symptoms, and you seem to be under a lot of stress these days.

For me, it has to be cold out. Vibrating machinery makes it worse though. When I was mowing many years ago in my lawn care days, on a cold day my hands would get so bad there were times I had to use my arms to pry my fingers off of the control levers on the zero turn I would ride. Between the vibration of the engine and the cold air, even on a 45 or 50° day, my hands would freeze up.
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Yeah I read stress can. I've been working on managing that.

I might have to bite the bullet and go. I hate going, they just say "you should see a specialist", take my money and nothing happens. Specialists are thousands and take my money and go "we don't know, take x drug".

I'm cynical when it comes to the medical system. Took a chiro to recognize I'd broken my neck, a naturopath to figure out a vitamin imbalance was causing another issue.

Reynauds kinda makes sense. It often just randomly presents. Can be from repeated use injuries. It's only presenting on my palms, which is weird.

Pulse ox would be a good investment. I'll grab one from the store tomorrow.
I'm sin
 
If you broke your neck it could be a thoracic outlet issue, my AC joints have thickened so my hands end up speckled purple/pink more notably my forearms from poor circulation mixed with a low resting heart rate. only bonus is my arms can stay overhead without feeling fatigued. Like reach said vibrating machinery or even long days with the bigger saws will trigger it as well.
 
pcpTR33 said:
If you broke your neck it could be a thoracic outlet issue, my AC joints have thickened so my hands end up speckled purple/pink more notably my forearms from poor circulation mixed with a low resting heart rate. only bonus is my arms can stay overhead without feeling fatigued. Like reach said vibrating machinery or even long days with the bigger saws will trigger it as well.
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That would make a lot of sense. I've got a low resting heart rate too. Is there, like, risk of damage to the hands from it?
 
Brando CalPankian said:
...

I might have to bite the bullet and go. I hate going, they just say "you should see a specialist", take my money and nothing happens. Specialists are thousands and take my money and go "we don't know, take x drug".

I'm cynical when it comes to the medical system. Took a chiro to recognize I'd broken my neck, a naturopath to figure out a vitamin imbalance was causing another issue.
...
Click to expand...
Maybe start with a chiro - if you have one you have confidence in???

The good thing about self pay, if the specialist will see you without a referral, you don't need to ask anybody's permission. Just go and pay. We've found they aren't that much more expensive than others - its just knowing which specialty you are looking for. And, as you said, they often don't know the answer either. It's the testing that starts to add up costs...and they want to keep testing until they figure it out.

But insurance can complicate and slow that process. Need to take steps B, C, and D before you can take step A. For example, I worked with a guy having a lot of foot pain. Went to orthopedic. The ortho ordered an MRI to take a closer look see what they might do to help. Insurance said they wouldn't pay for an MRI until he went through 6 weeks of physical therapy. (I wondered: PT for what? An undiagnosed pain??? I also laughed because I knew a former PT manager at that office...he he told me insurance companies would fight over imaging costs when they negotiated payments. The office decided to "cave" on imaging pricing in favor of higher charges to insurance for physical therapy...almost sounded like they were playing poker knowing the cards the insurance provider was holding)

Finally, I get your cynicism. I don't think I've been do a doctor (besides dentist and eye doc) in 5 years. But we've had some good ones when others in the family have needed them...
 
Localised circulatory system damage is a possibility. Frostbite is a cumulative damage to your circulatory system that leads to earlier/easier onset the more times you've experienced it. I wonder if mechanical vibration exposure (un-anti-vibe saw) behaves similarly. I've smashed up my left hand when I was younger and part of the treatment was vaso dilation/constriction "exercise" via hot/cold immersion to try to rehabilitate blood circulation. IIRC there was a bit of laser too. This was done just after cast removal.

You might glean something from SPO2 (oximeter) at blued sites vs non-blued sites to get a sort of body baseline vs peripheral areas. Confirm/deny localisation. Although with cardiac insufficiency I think it presents the same. (?)

Wish you the best outcome.
 
We'll run by Walmart this morning before work. Wife gave me the night off to rest and my hands are still purple.

Chiro would be a good place to start. I didn't know I can just call a specialist and pay their cover charge as self pay. I thought everything was still referral based.

Kay's sister is in medical billing. I've heard horror stories as well. Insurance is a racket.

@Bart_ that makes a lot of sense. My hands when numb after I broke my neck, so I don't really know what's going on with them until they're bleeding or wounded. Cumulative damage could make a lot of sense. Did the vaso exercises help? Chiro has laser therapy.

Climber suggested acupuncture.

We'll see I suppose. Next week looks lighter, I'll make a couple of appointments.
 
I did it in two phases. Smashed 2nd 3rd fingers, grew them back, years later 3 metacarpals relatively cleaner breaks. The treatment was done on my palm. In later years my 2nd 3td fingertips are prone to getting cold before the rest of my fingers, accelerating in perhaps the last 4 years. By heredity I'm starting from good peripheral circulation or just fatter hands :) vs my wife whose hands get cold real fast. I didn't hold much account for the laser but boy did the warm/cold immersion shock treatment get my attention.

Funny story. When I broke and had get re-broken/set my left pinkie metacarpal the doc says Hold out your hands so she can compare the target shape/angle she was going for I said Sorry that's not going to work - that knuckle's been broken too and I know it's tilted down too much (the knuckle bump's kind of missing) so don't rely on that. :) But now they match because the casts pushed them both out of alignment the same way. :)


Do some research into whether the discoloration involves any particulate eg broken off bits of plaque eg that can then circulate and cause blockages (eg stroke) or whether it's more like discoloration from deep bruising which to my knowledge never did anyone in - before you do any vigorous treatment. Rest can't do much harm (seems a reasonable guess) while you're getting up to speed on treatment.

I only played a doctor on tv - 10cc's epinephrin stat! ;)
 
I've seen Buckin Billy Ray change anti-vibe springs to stiffer ones - maybe you can de-hotrod a saw to have softer springs?

Are you trackimg discoloration vs days/activities? Snap a pic set once or twice a day. Might help the doc too.


-Cough- Here's some science. If you've got the oximeter, try this to check for blood flow restriction at your wrists. 1) standing relaxed no previous exertion particularly of your forearms/hands - measure O2 in say your chest, thigh and also your hand in it's suspect areas. 2) Do some exertion best to stress/inflame your wrist/hand/forearm areas all at once (dumbbell curls?) till your heartbeat rises (entering oxygen deficiency reaction) then repeat the measurements, looking for possible poorer O2 levels in the discoloration areas. The concept being if poorer circulation, re-oxygenation won't keep up as well = lower SPO2 reading.

Oximeter works off the ratio of red/IR received not absolute intensities so with luck your meter can take a surface measurement. IIRC the ratio is taken/valid on the upslope of the arterial pulse. I know pass-thru's are more commonly available. Let's just say I have nerd history.

edit - might have been the ratio of slopes. call me old

edit2 - doh its actually complicated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_oximetry. 25 years ago a buddy of mine was working on signal processing out artefact like motion induced, fluorescent lighting etc. Sorry for the foggy memory false Eureka :( At least I remembered reflective right.
 
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That sounds doable. Hell I can go out and mock up some work around the property with the thing on and see what happens.

I've been taking some photos. I'd had a couple weeks where I wasn't in the field and it'd mostly cleared up so I'd hoped I was over it. Now I'll be more aggressive in gathering evidence.

It'd be useful to see what I can do, non work related, to get it to flare up.

Thank you for the insight there.
 
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Good for anti-vibe while bucking, operation a single cylinder machine without good anti vibe...string trimmer, brush cutter, or a tractor. Not so good for dexterity or brush/ wood handling

Electric saws may help.
 
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We have the battery husky trim saw. I love it for bucket work. Looking to try the rear handle version too.

Might be worth a try. They're not that expensive. I take gloves off to drag brush anyway, force of habit.
 
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