HAAS knee ascender patent

colb

colb

Been here a while
Location
Florida
Hi folks, attempting to redirect this away from the sherrilltree and treestuff join forces thread. Let's discuss, hopefully with respect for all parties involved. Are the HAAS and SAKA the same or different in terms of this patent? I'm assum8ng that the patent linked to below is the relevant one, but please note that three other search results came back, with two being about a year older.

https://www.google.com/patents/US20...ved=0ahUKEwj9q-KgmvHNAhVKRiYKHSVIAWAQ6AEIKTAC
 
I replied in the other thread before I realized there was a separate discussion so I'll copy it here:

I'm no patent lawyer, but I feel I could submit a very strong case that the SAKA features TWO fixed ends of a length of elastic. Whereas Michael's patent clearly states his design is of one fixed end and one free end.
 
I feel they are very different. I just gutted my bungee and replaced it with th saka. Can't to that with he haas. They are both great both have been bought legally. I like a choice.
 
I don't think Michael claims or has claimed to invent the knee ascender. In one of his HAAS videos he even mentions that it was a variation of Beranek's rope walking system. the intellectual property is the bungee through a hallow tube for its use in the knee ascender application. It's something simple but no one else had patented the idea so therefore it's his.
 
The Akimbo and bulldog bone live in harmony because they do very similar things to a rope, as compared to a rope runner, which in turn looks a lot like a modified caving rappel rack. The bulldog bone is an under-the-table affair while the Akimbo has not yet been sold for profit. Strangely, the Akimbo may have gained some shelter by being produced by RE, as the RR2 will be...

There's a lot of gray area, and I don't who is right or wrong, but I'm glad that these inventors are able to monetize their work. I wish them success, in money and in friendship, and I'd like to see those SAKAs up on TS alongside the HAAS Velox again...
 
What really amazes me is we have 2 guys here who have come up with great designs for knee ascenders, BOTH of whom are paying sleezebag lawyers! WTF, come on guys get real, how much do you think you can make on these? I seriously doubt enough to cover your lawyers fees, unbelievable
 
Upon reading about the Hass a few years back, I was always puzzled by suggestions that the general concept was something quite novel. When in fact, what makes it work is the bungee....regardless of whether its attached or threaded through....something Beranek appears to have pioneered years before, but seemingly gets no recognition for. Jerry must surely have read all the Hass hysteria since it first came about, but said nothing the whole time. I could never understand that.
 
When I first saw a rope runner I immediately saw a feature Incorporated in it from the hh. Maybe I should have sued Kevin, oh wait I never got a patent on it and I like Kevin and hate lawyers. My point is we are all tree guys , get over it.
 
I had just the opposite impression of the HAAS when it first came out. Even though I have known about and used knee ascenders for a long time, the HAAS was different and in my opinion, better. The biggest difference was in combining the bungee with the semi-rigid tube, both of which assist in its advancing up the rope. Having the bungee protected inside the tube and extended below the ascender and under tension was also new to me. Knee ascenders have been around for a long time but not in this form and I had found most to be too fiddly for anything but a major ascent.

Now this may not mean squat to most of you but my first impression was wow, what a cool idea, backed up by, hey, this thing works great.
 
The funny part is after watching several videos dated as far back as 2013 and looking at several site hat carry one or both of them, only one actually has knee ascender in its name. The other one from as far back as 2013 is referred to as a non traditional foot ascender. I did read the patent link and think that the problem is that the SAKA is actually a knee ascender by its name. Maybe we just call it the SACA. It would be at Calf height for a 7ft guy, it not the inventors fault we are all shorter than the intended user.
 
Just out of curiosity can some one point me to the legal definition of "knee ascender"? Neither of these devices looks like my knee, nor does either one connect to my knee. So by the lack of those two rules my hand would also be a knee ascender.
 
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