Grass under trees

Tom, I was reading your OP again, where you wrote that the first two are easy, but not the third: more light.

There may be one easy way.

How much would it cost to install grow lights?

: - )
 
Holly suggested grow lights too :)

Before limbs get cut I need to talk with someone who can tell me how many lumens of light St. Aug needs to grow. Without that measurable quantity there is no way to know how much foliage needs to be removed to get enough light in.

It's easy to measure nutrient conditions and needs.
It's easy to measure water conditions and needs.
Never in my life have I ever heard of a way to measure light conditions and needs of turf. I know it can be done though. Someone must know how much light is needed.

For all I know there is a soil issue here. Or maybe too much foot/vehicle traffic or something.

Removing some foliage to get the grass to grow is something that I'm willing to do. IF...I can know ahead of time that removing a pre-determined amount of foliage will let in enough light to grow the grass. Unless I can quantify the pruning needs I don't want to just go in and start whacking limbs.
 
While googling information for the class I am taking this summer (Sports Turf Mgt), I came across an article that discussed turf and trees and the inevitable conflict.

This author was saying that to truly figure out how much sun could get in, you need a computer-generated calculation due to the fact that the Earth and Sun are moving and that light availability changes on a day-to-day basis. So trimming in one manner may seem fine...for the day you trim it. But may be inadequate as the season progresses.

"No grass will grow in complete shade." Is a statement I have read over and over again. The caveat should probably read "will not grow well". Others here have stated that St. Augustine does just fine in shade.

But your photos tell a different story. Are you developing an aeration program to decompact the soil? As with all things, you can't simply deal with one aspect of a problem and expect a good result.

I'm still voting for relandscaping for enhancement and improvement of this, potentially, beautiful alle. It would be interesting to price out a relandscaping effort that would minimize the grass where it can't grow anyway, bringing in mulch, some benches and approporiate understory plants vs grow lights.

To tell you the truth, my mind boggles at the contrived situation that would promote. Sending out the message that we can create whatever we want as long as we are willing to spend enough money to do it. With relandscaping we are working with what nature is telling us is appropriate, with adding grow lights we are fighting against it.

Sylvia
 
I skimmed the tread...

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&...q=&gs_rfai=

This is a search on turf shade tolerance, I've found mixes to be better then monocultures in shade.

There have been several golf course studies on shade & turf, any leaf will occlude sun, branches are worse. If i remember correctly, even with the best grass, a 30% loss of light and any grass becomes problematic.

I have had luck with academics when I explain that trees are a biological system, and that system can be disrupted by drastically removing dynamic mass - the 60/30 rule fits in nicely here. (60% of dynamic mass is in the bottom 30% of canopy).

Perennial texture gardens seem to work well, and increase watering of the trees to boot. I've gotten a few air excavations to increase the O component of the soil with sterile garden mix, then a gardener puts in hostas, may apple, jack-in-the-pulpit....
 
JPS,

Thanks for linking the search. With Google, like any search for knowledge, the right question has to be asked. I asked a different question and got different answers. There were some good answers in your search!

From what I've gathered so far after reading webpages the only tree-related shade considerations was that St. Aug needs 3-4 hours of filtered light per day and that elevating the low limbs to ten feet would likely get enough light to the grass. Those two solutions seem completely opposite. I have emails into two county extension agents to see if they can quantify the light needs of St. Aug.
 
St. Aug doesn't seed, only sod.

Heavy thinning will change the character of the live oaks. If any pruning is going to happen I need to be assured that it will be done so that grass will grow. Otherwise...the pruning would do no good for the grass and hurt the trees.
 
Ok most likely a dumb question, when you prune doesn't that help in root growth? So if you prune this will increase the roots to take up more nutrients starving the grass. I say mulch some tables and ask the dean for lunch on a really hot day
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I was asking a grounds guy at the local golf course about grass under the trees and he said lots of fert. and pruning. I then asked is it worth it he said no for weeks they had to keep people out of the area( nearly impossible) . Oh sorry to deeter the thread a little but you think lawn mowers are damaging play some golf and watch and look at the trees
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[ QUOTE ]
Ok most likely a dumb question, when you prune doesn't that help in root growth?

[/ QUOTE ]Hormonally, the opposite may be true. auxin in buds stimulate root growth, so the less buds, the less root growth...?

There are probably other factors...
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