- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Good Fun
- Thread starter tod_k
- Start date
- Location
- Bloomington, Indiana
The picture helps.
Thanks!
Thanks!
- Location
- western Oregon
My preference for anchoring my SRT line is a 6 bar rappel rack set in hard lock mode. Bomb-proof lock off, easy to unlock under load, and total lowering control with minimal effort. And you could drop quite a chunk of wood on that thing and never break it...bend, sure, but not break to failure. Costs the same or less than the Gri Gri.
- Location
- Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Hey Tom,
dont see any advantage to the setup in your photo....you've pretty much made a munter mule, i think, without the munter.
what wierds me out is that g.g. can slide if loaded slowly...if it pulls through your setup you will have the mule business locked in very tightly and potentially even around the lever.
More importantly.... Why get the backup involved with the taut side anyhow? Its only backing up the gg in that photo, and not the anchor. I would put the backup on the slack side and make it completely independent. Your backup will fly off into space if the grigri breaks.
A butterfly five feet down the slack side and anchored separately- not just with a carabiner into the same anchor point- is a true backup to the gg and its anchor.
Not of course, to say that you've got it totally wrong...i just reckon this way is better.
dont see any advantage to the setup in your photo....you've pretty much made a munter mule, i think, without the munter.
what wierds me out is that g.g. can slide if loaded slowly...if it pulls through your setup you will have the mule business locked in very tightly and potentially even around the lever.
More importantly.... Why get the backup involved with the taut side anyhow? Its only backing up the gg in that photo, and not the anchor. I would put the backup on the slack side and make it completely independent. Your backup will fly off into space if the grigri breaks.
A butterfly five feet down the slack side and anchored separately- not just with a carabiner into the same anchor point- is a true backup to the gg and its anchor.
Not of course, to say that you've got it totally wrong...i just reckon this way is better.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Yoav,
You've taken "backup" to it's logical end. The only way to have a more redundant system would be to climb with two seperate ropes. Like a double/twin rope system in rock climbing.
You're right. There could be a circumstance where the GG gets whacked and there is the possibility of me taking a ground fall. I'm not disputing the validity of your observations. This is going to go into the mulling file for when I'm driving.
Are you suggesting a whole seperate anchor system on the base of the tree too? Or clipping the backup biner into the same place as the GG? Like I said, how far down the "backup the backup" road do you feel we need to travel?
Burnham's suggestion of using a rack is great too. Since I only have a mini-rack with four bars I don't feel that's an adequate belay/lowering device. I think the GG is the better tool in my kit.
You've taken "backup" to it's logical end. The only way to have a more redundant system would be to climb with two seperate ropes. Like a double/twin rope system in rock climbing.
You're right. There could be a circumstance where the GG gets whacked and there is the possibility of me taking a ground fall. I'm not disputing the validity of your observations. This is going to go into the mulling file for when I'm driving.
Are you suggesting a whole seperate anchor system on the base of the tree too? Or clipping the backup biner into the same place as the GG? Like I said, how far down the "backup the backup" road do you feel we need to travel?
Burnham's suggestion of using a rack is great too. Since I only have a mini-rack with four bars I don't feel that's an adequate belay/lowering device. I think the GG is the better tool in my kit.
- Location
- western Oregon
Tom, I do like my 6 bar rack with hyper bar, but I can't see what the problem would be with the 4 bar mini. I have one of those, too, and a GG. I believe the mini rack is ultimately stronger than the GG, and still locks/unlocks quite satisfactorily with plenty of friction available. The dang thing is designed and built for real rappeling, unlike the GG. Now unlike the rack, the GG is designed primarily for belaying...belaying a moving climber, which means a rope moving through the device in frequent stop/start motions, always tended by a belayer. That is not our situation in establishing a SRT anchor with lowering capabilities. Both work great for lowering tasks, which is really what we want in this situation. What am I missing?
- Location
- Home of the New Jersey Devils
[ QUOTE ]
but I will use 2 caribiners
[/ QUOTE ]
Now see, even an experienced climber like Todd will respectfully take advice from others here. Well done! I'm proud of you and this thread Todd!
Seriously, that was the original intention of this site- to give us (field dudes) a place to expand our knowledge through one another. Thanks guys. /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif
but I will use 2 caribiners
[/ QUOTE ]
Now see, even an experienced climber like Todd will respectfully take advice from others here. Well done! I'm proud of you and this thread Todd!
Seriously, that was the original intention of this site- to give us (field dudes) a place to expand our knowledge through one another. Thanks guys. /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Burnham, you're not missing a thing. You know why I have the setup that I do.
I've used the mini rakc for rapping and it doesn't have the let-go-lock-off characteristics that I like. It would let the climber slip down the rope. But now that you got me thinking about my setup, the tail of the rope would be bent upwards giving just a bit more friction. More things for me to mull over.
My mini rack is buried in my shipping container somewhere so it's going to have to wait for a while for a field test.
I've used the mini rakc for rapping and it doesn't have the let-go-lock-off characteristics that I like. It would let the climber slip down the rope. But now that you got me thinking about my setup, the tail of the rope would be bent upwards giving just a bit more friction. More things for me to mull over.
My mini rack is buried in my shipping container somewhere so it's going to have to wait for a while for a field test.
- Location
- western Oregon
Tom, I understand completely why you desire the let-go-lock-off characteristic for a device used in rappels...but do you mean that you see a need for that same characteristic in the let-down capable anchor for your SRT rope?
- Location
- Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Tom.- you are less likely to be at risk from a ground fall than you are from a car accident when you are "mulling while driving"! No joke!
to backup everything but the anchor tree and the rope itself.....
the easy way: alpine butterfly a few feet down and clip it to another anchor completely.
the complicated way: take big long slack loop from slack side of gg, wrap a few times. around the tree and lock off with any loop on the bight, or with a carabiner. keep it slack just behind the gg so if you it slips a little everything wont jam.
burnhams got a good point in regards to a locking device....it is just an emergency lower, so autolocking is much less important. I think a munter/mule is adequate a and costs 100 dollars less.
GG actually gives you surprisingly POOR control when its not attached to your harness just in front of you, you inevitably end up wierding out your elbow trying to pull the lever..
Thought a while back about putting one of those ice climber "screamer" shock absorbers on the line at the anchor, just in case somebody decides to do the bungee. I just wasnt sure if it was worth having it go and ending up with the control device (gg or munter) out of reach....
total cost/benefit analysis goes straight to the munter/mule. I was really only using a grigri as an anchor because we had one free.
to backup everything but the anchor tree and the rope itself.....
the easy way: alpine butterfly a few feet down and clip it to another anchor completely.
the complicated way: take big long slack loop from slack side of gg, wrap a few times. around the tree and lock off with any loop on the bight, or with a carabiner. keep it slack just behind the gg so if you it slips a little everything wont jam.
burnhams got a good point in regards to a locking device....it is just an emergency lower, so autolocking is much less important. I think a munter/mule is adequate a and costs 100 dollars less.
GG actually gives you surprisingly POOR control when its not attached to your harness just in front of you, you inevitably end up wierding out your elbow trying to pull the lever..
Thought a while back about putting one of those ice climber "screamer" shock absorbers on the line at the anchor, just in case somebody decides to do the bungee. I just wasnt sure if it was worth having it go and ending up with the control device (gg or munter) out of reach....
total cost/benefit analysis goes straight to the munter/mule. I was really only using a grigri as an anchor because we had one free.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Man alive, I'm going to have to go out and drive the 225/70 freeway loop a few times to get all of my mulling time in 
Y and B, all good points.
The reason that I've gotten a bit myopic about the let go lock off system is that arbos minds and muscles are trained to react that way. It's counter intuitive to be in a different system at times. I don't know if my course of thinking is valid or not. I go back into the arbo heritage vrs rock/ice or mountaineering. In ours, we use the rope more as a tool rather than just being around for a safety. That gets us to use it more actively rather than as a passive tool unless you're climbing big wall trad stuff.
On Sunday a bunch of arbos are getting together for some off trail skiing. No lifts, drive up ski down, switch shuttle driver and repeat until our thighs flame out During my time in the shuttle seat I should have time to think this through a bit.
Y and B, all good points.
The reason that I've gotten a bit myopic about the let go lock off system is that arbos minds and muscles are trained to react that way. It's counter intuitive to be in a different system at times. I don't know if my course of thinking is valid or not. I go back into the arbo heritage vrs rock/ice or mountaineering. In ours, we use the rope more as a tool rather than just being around for a safety. That gets us to use it more actively rather than as a passive tool unless you're climbing big wall trad stuff.
On Sunday a bunch of arbos are getting together for some off trail skiing. No lifts, drive up ski down, switch shuttle driver and repeat until our thighs flame out
During my time in the shuttle seat I should have time to think this through a bit.
- Location
- Home of the New Jersey Devils
I hate cleaning up in the snow. Takes so much longer. I went to pick up a little twig poking out of the snow yesterday when I was raking and found out that it was attached to a 6" x 6' hunk! /forum/images/graemlins/eyeye.gif
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