Getting into sales

[Jem4417]

Hi my names Jack, if you've seen me in other threads please disregard my climber mentality when arguing my point. But I'm looking to get into sales at me tree service. I'm on the safety committee, am a certified arborist, give tailgates and safety meeting, and train often. But I've found myself in many operations discussions with management and sales reps. I'm looking for any advice and any threads already established on the subject to read that others have found useful. Thanks in advance- Jack

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

Do what you already know. Don't spend a ton of time learning how to be a salesman. Know the numbers, and how long it takes the work to be completed. Spend your effort in educating yourself in every aspect of arboriculture. This way when a client asks you have the answer right away, or where to find it. Don't be afraid of spreading that knowledge either, you will find your sales rate will be higher just by explaining why the spacing needs to be so wide or why the reduction is necessary.

 

[JD3000]

Start with a bag of stinky primo...nevermind that thought...

Selling what exactly? Pruning and removals or other stuff like preservation and PHC?

 

[Jem4417]

Start with a bag of stinky primo...nevermind that thought...

Selling what exactly? Pruning and removals or other stuff like preservation and PHC?

Removals and pruning would be my specialty, I would be studying the phc books but I'm going for my ctsp right now and I spend a fair amount of time preparing tailgates and safety meetings. I should spend more time with the books but I rent two rooms to my knuckle head friends so my house isn't always a zone of learning. After ctsp my next avenue is phc. I'm versed from the arb cert but not proficient. Then we have lawn care services, which is farthest from my mind but familiarity is still essential. Thanks for the reply JD

 

[Jem4417]

I bet you could clean up in sales, Jack. Let em have it!

Beware, though. The grass ain't always greener. At times I get completely fed up with trying to explain the who what why when and where of tree care to presumptuous tree owners. It can be a real drag at times. Usually though, it's aight.

Yea this relates to our Walmart thread. Hate to toot my horn but I'm killing it with management so this is my out. Our sales guys are all from like 15 years ago as far as their field experience goes. So I'm trying to bring some fresh blood into the mix consider all the innovation in our industry. When I worked for asplundh I had no friends in the field now I work with so many guys around my age and the field work is fun but if you listened to @ROYCE in a new thread, I got goals and this is one so I'm fighting for my spot. Get to pa Levi. Beers are on me

 

[JD3000]

Lawn care is far simpler than woodies. You only need to know a few species of turf, broadleaf vs grassy vs sedge weeds, annuals vs perennials, and a few key pests and diseases. Not rocket science but it is poorly done in the summer when drought and heat hits. Far more diffucult to learn the ins and outs of hundreds of different woody species.

 

[Jem4417]

Do what you already know. Don't spend a ton of time learning how to be a salesman. Know the numbers, and how long it takes the work to be completed. Spend your effort in educating yourself in every aspect of arboriculture. This way when a client asks you have the answer right away, or where to find it. Don't be afraid of spreading that knowledge either, you will find your sales rate will be higher just by explaining why the spacing needs to be so wide or why the reduction is necessary.

That's great advice, thing is I'm not even a full time foreman and my crew leaders are always telling me I talk to much to the customers and that they don't understand anything I'm staying. I let it go and know that when we say we're thinning your 100 year old oak next to your house ,and only take some suckers and dead wood, that when I explain for ten minutes how you should be looking at the base and tips for dieback or fruiting bodies etc. that I'm telling them the signs and or symptoms of their tree that should alarm them to call us so nothing terrible happens. ( I'm the worst with run on sentences I hope that made some sense). But long story short I believe customer education is 50% of what you sell to anyone who needs their trees maintained

 

[JD3000]

Work on that. Report writing will become important for you in the future. A class in technical writing would help tremendously.

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

That's great advice, thing is I'm not even a full time foreman and my crew leaders are always telling me I talk to much to the customers and that they don't understand anything I'm staying. I let it go and know that when we say we're thinning your 100 year old oak next to your house ,and only take some suckers and dead wood, that when I explain for ten minutes how you should be looking at the base and tips for dieback or fruiting bodies etc. that I'm telling them the signs and or symptoms of their tree that should alarm them to call us so nothing terrible happens. ( I'm the worst with run on sentences I hope that made some sense). But long story short I believe customer education is 50% of what you sell to anyone who needs their trees maintained

A foreman that says you talk too much to the client is a nitwit in my book. Doesn't know the first thing about customer service. I have several analogies I use all the time that stream lines this educational interaction and makes it understandable even to the not so bright.
By explaining the symptoms you are setting your sales crew up for their next visit to the property and their next sale. That's what you are looking to do when you sell work. Set yourself up for the next visit. And it's all information that you have in your head/Rolodex already, just flip to that card and start teaching.
You are on the right track. Keep talking!

 

[Jem4417]

A foreman that says you talk too much to the client is a nitwit in my book. Doesn't know the first thing about customer service. I have several analogies I use all the time that stream lines this educational interaction and makes it understandable even to the not so bright.
By explaining the symptoms you are setting your sales crew up for their next visit to the property and their next sale. That's what you are looking to do when you sell work. Set yourself up for the next visit. And it's all information that you have in your head/Rolodex already, just flip to that card and start teaching.
You are on the right track. Keep talking!

Yea that's spot on. The foreman I'm thinking of always contradicts the sales rep. And besides thinking that's unprofessional or that's not good for the company I think wow that's awkward. We have incentives to sell work but my ethics always are thinking what did the rep say about this and am I making him look bad. So my go to is just general knowledge and a bit of probing to find out if I'm stepping in on the sales rep's territory

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

If your salesmen are normally spot on I can't see contradiction being the best route. If they are selling crap all the time sure maybe try to straighten things out on the site, but work with the sales team to update their sales. I'm lucky, I sell and do, so if I sell crap I tell the sales guy not to do that again... or you are fired! I've cried a few times but I get over it .

 

[Jem4417]

That's the issue the sales guys have their good days but they have there awful days. We have a production bonus that fucks shit up. I can elaborate with a situational question. How much do you charge for a three man crew at your company? Without probing we're around 3400 dollars. That's not a joke. We charge the highest rates in our area and it makes and breaks us. The reps are okay but making these numbers possible in reference to the competition is impossible at times. So at times our days are jam packed with more than is feasible. My goal getting into sales is to do more removals at a lesser rate with a set crew of extraordinary removals guys. We charge the same per hour for removals and pruning and I think we're missing out on a market that wants removals but can't afford our prices. Hope that makes sense. I'm at the bar and everyone asks what I'm doing on my phone. I say I'm on treebuzz but they don't get it. Losers

 

[JD3000]

Jack. Go talk to friends and girls...

Buzz later dingleberry.

Enjoy your youth and get home safely.

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

That is astronomical. If you were selling in our area you would loose your shirt. But if you stay busy why not charge the big bucks and not be crazy busy.
The problem with selling removals constantly is once cut that tree goes away... and sometimes that client. So you are always in a state of trying to find new trees to remove. You do a good pruning job and your calling card is left in the clients yard. A nicely pruned tree that meets the standards and the clients needs. Depending on the tree I sometimes make much more per hr pruning than I can removing. And then a 2 or 3 year cycle back to it. I have a red Maple that I have pruned every year for 10 years. But that is what the tree needs to survive and what the client wants. I have a Norway maple I have pruned every other year for 12. And the client just called me and said just book it I trust you. Removals don't build that customer base like that. And it's funny I hear 5:1 my pruning clients recommending me over removal clients (when strictly doing one or the other).

 

[JD3000]

He's a 100% there. Build rapport and repeat customers by selling quality work as per scientific knowledge and industry standards by justifying why.

 

[Jem4417]

That is astronomical. If you were selling in our area you would loose your shirt. But if you stay busy why not charge the big bucks and not be crazy busy.
The problem with selling removals constantly is once cut that tree goes away... and sometimes that client. So you are always in a state of trying to find new trees to remove. You do a good pruning job and your calling card is left in the clients yard. A nicely pruned tree that meets the standards and the clients needs. Depending on the tree I sometimes make much more per hr pruning than I can removing. And then a 2 or 3 year cycle back to it. I have a red Maple that I have pruned every year for 10 years. But that is what the tree needs to survive and what the client wants. I have a Norway maple I have pruned every other year for 12. And the client just called me and said just book it I trust you. Removals don't build that customer base like that. And it's funny I hear 5:1 my pruning clients recommending me over removal clients (when strictly doing one or the other).

Totally on board with "preservation" pruning. Large trees are definitely in need of cycle prunes and selling that is by default more lucrative. The thing i notice in our area is that there are a multitude of prominent services that survive off removals. We will show up to prune trees and will see competition signs in the same yard who did the removals. My goal is to come up with a different way to charge removals so they are more affordable and do more removals with set crews based on ability so we can charge less but do more essentially

 

[Jem4417]

Jack. Go talk to friends and girls...

Buzz later dingleberry.

Enjoy your youth and get home safely.

Friends don't let friends drunk buzz. Thanks JD. Talk to you guys tomorrow

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

Totally on board with "preservation" pruning. Large trees are definitely in need of cycle prunes and selling that is by default more lucrative. The thing i notice in our area is that there are a multitude of prominent services that survive off removals. We will show up to prune trees and will see competition signs in the same yard who did the removals. My goal is to come up with a different way to charge removals so they are more affordable and do more removals with set crews based on ability so we can charge less but do more essentially

I see now what you are you are trying to do.. and makes sense. Just always remember you can't do everything, and sometimes you might not get the removal, only because any monkey can do it with a bucket or crane. I run into the same problem with a couple very good clients. One of which I have done 10's of thousands in pruning, planting and PHc. But the $400 removal goes to the production removal co for $225. I'm ok with that ratio, because I know he will never be able to educate himself at those prices and get into my services for this client. That being said I just quoted 8k in removals over 5k of planting we have done in the last few years for this very client. She doesn't trust he won't ruin what we have done!
I think ideally the perfect sales guy has 2 crews to keep busy. A kick ass removal crew that has the right equipment, the right skills and the right attitude to do removals all day every day. The other crew should be a pruning crew with the skills, finesse and drive for fine pruning and doesn't mind spending an entire day in one or two trees.
The biggest problem I see with a "different way to charge" is the day rate is the day rate. The only way to change that is to have management look at the numbers and figure out where the fluff is. The only other input into the equation is time, and that can be touch and go as to putting less time on the tree. Crew safety, equipment longevity and crew morale will all begin to play a roll once to begin to hammer removals into your crew.

Another thought, has anyone ever approached management and discussed the day rate? Why is it so high? My guess is they got really busy and increased their rates to weed out the smaller work. Maybe they aren't ready or don't want to grow right now. Maybe they just figure if we are gonna put our guys out they are gonna get paid good. Hopefully with those rates the crews are well compensated (not a question it's a statement I don't want to know). There has to be a reason why it is that way.

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

That's the issue the sales guys have their good days but they have there awful days. We have a production bonus that fucks shit up. I can elaborate with a situational question. How much do you charge for a three man crew at your company? Without probing we're around 3400 dollars. That's not a joke. We charge the highest rates in our area and it makes and breaks us. The reps are okay but making these numbers possible in reference to the competition is impossible at times. So at times our days are jam packed with more than is feasible. My goal getting into sales is to do more removals at a lesser rate with a set crew of extraordinary removals guys. We charge the same per hour for removals and pruning and I think we're missing out on a market that wants removals but can't afford our prices. Hope that makes sense. I'm at the bar and everyone asks what I'm doing on my phone. I say I'm on treebuzz but they don't get it. Losers

I re read this post and a couple things pop out to me. "At times our days are jam packed with more than is feasible". Is it more than a crew can do but well over the day rate? Or is it more than they can handle just to get the day rate? No matter how you slice it, that $3400 is your day rate (until management changes it), you lower the pricing on removals to get more, you will have to do more in a day to get the $$$ management sets. More when it comes to work may not always be better. I don't care how extraordinary your guys are it will wear on them hard putting even more into an already busy day.
Also you have me intrigued with this production bonus. I would be interested in how that all works or doesn't (from your comment). If you don't feel like commenting on open forum please pm me.
All in all I think you are chasing a rabbit that runs a vicious circle of $$$ and hours. And if you ever catch him, ring his damn neck!

 

[treehumper]

Your company may not be interested in the market you think is being missed. Chasing price becomes a bad model unless it's right across the board for all your work. Learn who the company is targeting as their clients and who isn't. That's part of Selling 101. That said, just like the training you've done to become a competent arborist, do the same to become a competent sales person.

Take some communications courses of which technical writing is one. It's all about reaching a specific audience and understanding what their needs are. You're right about not contradicting the sales people as that is eventually going to undermine the whole business. See John Cleese's "Who sold you that then?" training video. Dated but still relevant. Communicating isn't about dumping information in the name of educating. It's about conveying the right information in a manner that the audience will understand and relate to.

Entering sales is a whole new world where your current experience forms a knowledge base to inform your decision making. Soon enough you'll be that guy who hasn't been in a tree for years. That means you need to keep up with how your crews perform so you'll be better at your job of selling their work.

Good luck!