Getting back from a limb walk.
- Thread starter Drewtree
- Start date
John_KAYS
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Eastern PA
Here is a good video:
Also...who is doing the work is huge. Try throwing a rope over a branch and haul yourself up into a tree, then try doing that but pass the rope to the guy on the ground...it is a whole lot harder for the guy on the ground.
Also, a good point to reiterate is that some pulleys are redirects and some are moving etc.
It is a tricky concept, but it all becomes clear in practice rather than trying to figure it out in theory. Like what dave said, go try it out.
Also...who is doing the work is huge. Try throwing a rope over a branch and haul yourself up into a tree, then try doing that but pass the rope to the guy on the ground...it is a whole lot harder for the guy on the ground.
Also, a good point to reiterate is that some pulleys are redirects and some are moving etc.
It is a tricky concept, but it all becomes clear in practice rather than trying to figure it out in theory. Like what dave said, go try it out.
Yeah, you're right, I've never tried any of this...
What that guy said about 2 meters turning into 3 means nothing. The same measurement would be made if you counted how much rope passed a non-climber load.
I think I understand the switch up but I don't see that being correct as the climber will always be the load,it seems it would ring true if you flipped the anchor and pulleys,like the climber has the end of the rope attached to themselves and it goes to the anchor pulley and back to the climbers pulley and then to the guy in the tree pulling your lazy arss up. Does that make sense to anyone else?
Also the video the guy hands the rope over like when the other person pulling you from below is going way out and making a chang in the rope angle,definitely not how it would ho down,im not grasping the part where if the rope switches hands but position is same that the ma magically changes...
knudeNoggin's standard quote on an all rope trucker's hitch 3/1 setup
>>is getting only 1.5x after frictions.
(i think knudeNoggin is about smartest knot guy ever came thru here,
also IGKT, and most quoted in online and hardcopy texts i've seen in recent years)
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Going over about 88% pulley efficiency starts co$ting much more;
squeezing the last few drops of efficiency out.
Just as pulley powers add/multiply up quickly, so as do the inefficiencies of their frictions!!!
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As any tools, there can also be art, beyond the mechanics.
2handing(4th and 7th rig in pic below) a 5x1 can give 8x1 of effort + 5xBodyWeight, with less friction than 8x1 rig of same manufacture.
Then, can swig/sweat even more 'purchase' from the host line with the jig.
These (2Hand & swig) are 2 KEY principles to maximizing about any rope force i think (short of impact).
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Over tighten ok on many things, then can give slack immediately as needed for greater range of control..
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John_KAYS
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Eastern PA
Hey man, you know I didn't mean it like that. I just meant in general it is easier to see in practice rather than in theory. Like the simple example of a rope over a limb and back down to a climber...if it is to the climber then it is 2:1 and if it is to another guy it is 1:1.
And here is Richards @yoyoman video, if it hasn't been shared yet.
EDIT: I think Richard's explanation of climbing up the rope rather than pulling on a rope in a hauling scenario is really to the point.
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Wow!
John_KAYS
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Eastern PA
Levi, with your video and the tape moving 4 feet, do you agree that if the hauling is from the ground then you would have the same travel in that tape... so now you have to ask yourself whether there is a difference in whether the climber is doing the work or a fella' on the ground. If you agree that there is a difference... then what you are measuring in your video could very well be the travel of the 2:1 of the hauler rather than the 3:1 of the climber. Or how would you measure to distinguish the difference between those two scenarios?
John_KAYS
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Eastern PA
Take for example that most basic scenario, the rope up through a pulley, or over a branch. If you are tied onto the one end and you start to climb the other end you are taking load off the end that is attached to you as the two legs share your body weight. So, you are pulling up half your weight. If you hand that same rope over to another person he is pulling up your entire weight and that limb is seeing twice the load. We are familiar with this in SRT vs DdRT. You know what I mean? I totally see what you mean with the "if it's odd" rule, but you have to agree there is difference in forces whether it is from the climbers perspective or the hauler...right?
Definition of mechanical advantage
: the advantage gained by the use of a mechanism in transmitting force; specifically : the ratio of the force that performs the useful work of a machine to the force that is applied to the machine.
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
It's a 3:1, sorry Levi. When the object moving up is doing the hauling you get a extra 1 point. I don't have the data to back it up, but it's there. You can find it on your own, I did.
Think about it, and Ddrt system is a 2:1 because the climber is the load, and the load is doing the work. If you were one of those sadistic climbers who make their groundies haul them up, it's a 1:1 system for the groundie. All a Ddrt system is is a redirect.
The Gun tackle is a 2:1 with a redirect from the anchor, but the moment the load is doing the work you get an extra 1 MA. In order to get your self to advance up, you need to pull one pound more than the weight on each leg of rope on the load. A climber on Ddrt has to haul just over 50% to go up. Take your tail and hang it on block near your tie in, haul on that it's a 4:1 (in Ddrt). Now with a gun tackle you have a 2:1, But for the load to do the work it needs to lift just over 30% of it's own weight.
Smoke a bowl, and trip on it for a few nights. You will get it.
Think about it, and Ddrt system is a 2:1 because the climber is the load, and the load is doing the work. If you were one of those sadistic climbers who make their groundies haul them up, it's a 1:1 system for the groundie. All a Ddrt system is is a redirect.
The Gun tackle is a 2:1 with a redirect from the anchor, but the moment the load is doing the work you get an extra 1 MA. In order to get your self to advance up, you need to pull one pound more than the weight on each leg of rope on the load. A climber on Ddrt has to haul just over 50% to go up. Take your tail and hang it on block near your tie in, haul on that it's a 4:1 (in Ddrt). Now with a gun tackle you have a 2:1, But for the load to do the work it needs to lift just over 30% of it's own weight.
Smoke a bowl, and trip on it for a few nights. You will get it.
