Generic Rigging Thimbles

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What I have never figured out about the grcs is why Greg can sell the whole grcs for almost less than the winch alone costs at west marine.

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The reason is that Gregg Good is the single largest consumer of Harken winches world wide. I heard that from some of his sailing buddies.
 
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Haters in the building... It's cool X the people who matter know that you brought this into the industry and we will back you... And not stab you in the back like some

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I appreciate the support.

There are lots of products in this industry that are simply two materials put together.

But it takes someone clever enough to think of it and use it.

There are many many products like this, I don't want to list them, because I don't want to possibly undermine the person or company that was smart enough to bring it to our industry.

I did a lot more than put two products together. I researched and found the best ring manufactured in the world to meet my needs. I talked with the engineers and tested the product at my work for almost a year. I choose fiber that would not degrade with some heat. (I choose not to use dyneema after testing). I have destroyed many rings and slings through testing. I have hundreds of man hours spent on testing and coming up with the best combinations. The company put my own name on the ring because I was going to stand behind the product and use it for a new industry. I got liability insurance on any product that I sell. I choose to use one of the best splicing companies in the United States to splice them.

I'm sorry if I got the tone wrong in this thread. But it seemed to me like bonner and tophopper are acting like I'm cheating people by using a ring that I did not create myself.
 
How about this for an idea on a product to sell: Weld up an airgun with really crappy welds. I mean REALLY crappy amateur welds. Actually sell it to someone and tell them to pump it up with high air pressure, then have them hold it next to their face for aiming. 165 psi in a crappy welded metal container and use it by holding it against your cheek. What happens if one of those weak seems bursts while it's against the users head? Death? Shrapnel? Hearing loss?

I've just found you've been bashing my XRR slings on TreeHouse. That thread shows your true feelings and intentions. It looks like I was correct after all.

I've got to go to work....... Talk more later.
 
Not saying it's bad. Another guide shipped in a couple pallets of beer and tripled the price. I'm more of a communist than a capitalist so I don't get it. No one else had a problem with it. Must be me. My business' lack of success is proof of that.

That summer I found 12 year old Wild Turkey Bourbon at 1/2 price, bought a case and the ice was free. It's the way she goes again. Business.

Really though you've put a bunch of time and money into something to aid our work. You did the research and I'm sure where you're at now and for awhile is out of pocket so I'd buy them from you on a matter of principle to support what I value and who I know. If you'd sell them to me. I like what you did now that I've been in business for awhile. Except the gotta come with a spliced rope deal. Nice try though. I gotta settle for new ropes to run through the new devices first. It's advanced our trade for sure six of them would be nice for the get rid of me quick deal..kidding. I wish I could be a business dude congrats.
 
Yeah the gotta come with a spliced rope kept me off too. I love abr splices but paying anyone to splice tenex isn't happening for me. Double strand or 16 strand absolutely. Thanks for the link nick. And thank you Xman for bringing our attention to these cool rings. Although I honestly don't know how I would have felt if I bought the pre spliced version cut it off and spliced my own on ther and then seen Nick's link. Either way these rings are sweeeet!
 
Hey something else. Even if the rings don't make you rich you bought and paid for an education in production, marketing and all the rest. How much is that worth?
 
Gentlemen please, this is nothing but ugly.

The notion that David was somehow manufacturing these rings by himself is preposterous on its face. More than that, it is very, very improbable to think that any manufacturing source would build only for a tree-climber market. This market is simply too small to sustain a profitable investment like that.

David’s value has been in the inspiration, the application and the real-world testing. Nobody at Antel will answer your question about how many rings to use at the top-rigging spot. Or how to set a fishing pole rig. Or what to expect for heat when dropping and running heavy wood.

Thank you, David. I for one appreciate that.

Now he’s got the classic entrepreneur’s challenge: to understand his <u>market</u> and to deliver value to it. The operative word here is market, not every individual in the market. Some of us are inveterate tinkerers. I certainly count myself in that class. But many want to buy a solution, ready to go. For the convenience. For the safety and certifications. For the quick delivery and the application support. And they are willing to direct their patronage toward supporting that.

But it’s a fine balancing act. Not everybody gets it right. The product itself is only a small part of the total value proposition. If you get it right, people will respond to the value. If you get it wrong, welcome to business: if you want a friend, get a dog.

VALUE! The market will respond to value, measured not on a historical achievement but a “what have you done for me lately” yardstick.


OF
 
It's getting ugly. I resemble that statement I gotta say I had a smirk when I saw the original post. And it's legitimate to share that information. But I thought I was being a gentleman and walked away from the computer to knock down another cornice off the woodpile thinking I'd backed up David's venture. The complaints are legitimate but like OF and I said it's just business. I couldn't resist the oppotunity to hassle him some. I shouldn't of done that.

Can I give my honest opinion of the XWheel now. Like it. Simple efficiency, same as the ring. It would be better without the signature X and just an outside rim. I think it would be a better ergonomic design.

That's called trying to redirect the thread. I had a self-imposed treebuzz ban after the video critic blunders I just got no disipline. Two weeks starting now.
 
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thanks for the support guys! I bring a product to this industry and you search for something similar. The first thing you find close to it you want to jump on it.

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Yes, you had a great idea, no doubt about it. I guess we could say that you have joined the ranks of other innovators in our industry. A short list of products comes to mind....

Ropeguide
Pulleysaver
Ring and ring friction saver
Rope wrench
Hobbs
GRCS
Porta Wrap
CE lanyard
and on and on.........

My point is that every time a good idea comes along somebody tries to copy it and do it cheaper.
 
Denny Moorehouse...Clog MOuntaineering, DMM and ISC...told me that R&amp;D is mistakenly thought to stand for 'Research and Development'. In actuality he said it stands for 'Rip-off and Destroy'

Don't take this to mean anything negative about X's creativity. His solution is great!
 
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Can I give my honest opinion of the XWheel now. Like it. Simple efficiency, same as the ring. It would be better without the signature X and just an outside rim. I think it would be a better ergonomic design.

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Having the X wheel just an outside rim won't let you take the rope away from the tree at a different angle without taking the wheel off. Having gaps in the rim lets you do that. I it just so happened to Turn out in an X shape.

Absolutly Love the Rings, use them everyday. They can deffinetly stand up to everyday treework. Thank you X man. Brilliant
 
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Don't take this to mean anything negative about X's creativity. His solution is great!

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I would like to, somewhat ironically, apply this sentiment to my post.
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Ok..

I have received some emails here and want to clear some things up.

JDD has obviously taken this as an attack, on not only him, but his business, family, children and livelihood as he stated to me. I dont see it that way at all. Xtreme Arborist Supply (XAS) distributes X-Rigging Ring slings (XRR). EAS does not distribute individual versions of the rings found in their XRR product. Antal produces a Low-Friction-Ring in 5 sizes. While these rings are sold in sling format it is different than EAS versions and they are sold individually.

A lot of users have asked for EAS to distribute single rings. The response from EAS has been that using the rings requires certain expertise and that for safety reasons distribution would be restricted to know-trusted splicers. All the while in reality individual rings are available to anyone who can visit their local West Marine or the internet.

The idea that that this is about undercutting cost is false, its about finding a retailer for a product that is otherwise unavailiable. Where is the malice in that? EAS doesn’t sell them!

Developing a product like the XRR and bringing it to market is difficult. You have to assume that when using a non-exclusively sourced product, with no changes made to it, that the market will eventually discover the source. When Sherrill Tree started selling ring and ring friction saver they didn’t try to restrict sales of steel rings nor did they blast people on Treebuzz for discussing where to buy steel rings and what the best price was. Responding quickly and without apparent strategy isn’t good business.

The suggestion that the Antal product is of lesser quality than EAS, or the comparison of Antal to Kong is ludicrous and doesn’t require further discussion.

As far as originality of the application or the accusation that I broke this to attack JDD, check out this link: http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/rigging-roping/37049-antal-low-friction-rings.html#post583052 These rings have been suggested for use in tree work as early as April 2011.

Stating that I was “bashing’ the XRR products on the Treehouse is even crazier. If you check that thread, which I started, you will see that I was actually creating positive feedback about the XRR. http://masterblasterhome.com/showthread.php?16567-X-Rigging-Slings I also broke it here that they were available for sale at TreeStuff.

I wont touch the attack on APTA devices other than to say this: The unit JDD is referencing was Bixlers. Brian contacted me, and repeatedly asked me about making him an APTA device, I had never even built a shoulder mounted version and had barely a rough diagram. It was sent with every caveat you can imagine and I called him and emailed a bunch of times to ensure he was happy and satisfied. I specifically told Brian it was a complete cosmetic loss but that it was safe, and it is.

The entire spirit of TreeBuzz and other online forums is the free exchange of ideas and information. We discuss products, retailers, prices and thousands of other topics daily. I don’t see how my original post was anything different.
I commend JDD for his efforts with the XRR product. Had it been me, I would have done a few things differently, namely offered the rings individually. Like Tom said, welcome to business, if you want a friend get a dog.

Rip off and destroy????
 
I am sure that Xman and abr will always have a market for people who can't splice. I would not be too worried about that. Even if there was a modest markup for the x- rings, I'm sure people will buy them. Been totally freakin out how to justify buying pre spliced tenex but wanted these rings bad.
 
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JDD has obviously taken this as an attack, on not only him, but his business, family, children and livelihood as he stated to me.

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If this is the case, I apologize to you David. I didnt mean to attack your livelihood. I thought we were all big boys here, and all entitled to our own opinions and free will, despite those who may not agree. I merely wanted to hear, something I felt wasnt fully disclosed before. If that makes me a hater than so be it, Ive been called much worse.

john
 
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