Fu*%face Von Clownstick

JD3000 said:
Environmental issues are very much at the forefront of my thoughts.

But...time to get boys brushed and in bed
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Me too - but I'll tell you what. Disease and drought have been great for my finances.

Even though it's against my self interest, I'd like to see less disease and drought.


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NorCalBrock said:
Do you know what the founding fathers of this country were? They were fleeing religious persecution, they were radicals, they were immigrants, and they were refugees.

In modern times, there are far more domestic-grown terrorist attacks and mass killings from right, left, and mental health anomalies to fear.

Do you really want to help "make America Great Again"? Vote for people that have a real plan to address mental health disparities and addiction treatment: far more likely to cause real harm in your life.

Do you slight America's values and history? Do you devalue what our fathers and grandparents fought wars for? Many lost their lives fighting wars in the hope to spread freedom and democracy worldwide. Many didn't have a choice and were drafted. Yes America has always been a nation of immigrants and a shore of refuge when tyranny, terror, and death are really knocking on your homelands door.


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hey man if you wanna reach in the m & m bowl with 650 that are fine and one that will kill you go ahead. Middle eastern radicals gloat that their disguising as them. The time of the founding fathers and today are completely different times. They didn't know a bunch of bone heads wouldn't be able to decipher what principles our country were based on and what was serving us up on a silver platter to get screwed because we were being soft as shit. If everyone who has an issue with their country left to come to America we d be full as shit. There's over 7 billion people on earth everybody can't come here. Are you for open borders? Where do we draw the line?
 
Jem4417 said:
hey man if you wanna reach in the m & m bowl with 650 that are fine and one that will kill you go ahead. Middle eastern radicals gloat that their disguising as them. The time of the founding fathers and today are completely different times. They didn't know a bunch of bone heads wouldn't be able to decipher what principles our country were based on and what was serving us up on a silver platter to get screwed because we were being soft as shit. If everyone who has an issue with their country left to come to America we d be full as shit. There's over 7 billion people on earth everybody can't come here. Are you for open borders? Where do we draw the line?
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I understand your fear - You were 8 years old when Sept. 11th happened, 10 when we invaded the wrong country, 14 when the greatest economic catastrophe has happened since the Great Depression. You've grown up in a crazy time. I'm not going to change your mind - FOX has a much louder megaphone.

But when you were 8, I was working two jobs and on my BA while I watched the twin towers burn to the ground and people jumping from the buildings. I then had friends who went to fight in the Afghanistan war. They went without the body armor or equipment while crony contractors stole and they came home without the benefits they deserved. Some didn't come home - some committed suicide.

When you were 10, I was marching against the war in Iraq. I knew it would lead to more senseless death and further destabilize the Mideast.

When you were 14, I was 29 and watched the bottom drop out of the economy- along went my great job and benefits.

So what did I do? I had to reinvent myself. I had to pull myself up by the bootstraps. I had to claw and fight my way back. I don't whine or cry about the bumpy journey and tough times we've all endured. The immigrant or lone wolf don't scare me because our country has endured more and worse.

8 years ago, your $22 dollar an hour job would have been a god send to us who were limping our way through - day-by-day. It isn't chump change my man. Be grateful...no one is entitled.






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NorCalBrock said:
I understand your fear - You were 8 years old when Sept. 11th happened, 10 when we invaded the wrong country, 14 when the greatest economic catastrophe has happened since the Great Depression. You've grown up in a crazy time. I'm not going to change your mind - FOX has a much louder megaphone.

But when you were 8, I was working two jobs and on my BA while I watched the twin towers burn to the ground and people jumping from the buildings. I then had friends who went to fight in the Afghanistan war. They went without the body armor or equipment while crony contractors stole and they came home without the benefits they deserved. Some didn't come home - some committed suicide.

When you were 10, I was marching against the war in Iraq. I knew it would lead to more senseless death and further destabilize the Mideast.

When you were 14, I was 29 and watched the bottom drop out of the economy- along went my great job and benefits.

So what did I do? I had to reinvent myself. I had to pull myself up by the bootstraps. I had to claw and fight my way back. I don't whine or cry about the bumpy journey and tough times we've all endured. The immigrant or lone wolf don't scare me because our country has endured more and worse.

8 years ago, your $22 dollar an hour job would have been a god send to us who were limping our way through - day-by-day. It isn't chump change my man. Be grateful...no one is entitled.
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Well spoken. Anyone where remember that Bin Laden's goal was not to out compete us, not to win the war, but to dive us into economic collapse. Quite literally to drop us down a peg or two. This is the goal, to scare us into exhausting our resources. And why do "they" hate us so much? We can't keep our hands to our selves and force capitalism upon the 3rd world for our profit.
All I've been hearing about is more fear, the polarization between us and them. How in the hell can this be a solution?
 
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JD3000 said:
Same was said about those fleeing from Iran in the late 70's and during both Gulf Wars. People just trying to find a better life than where they were originally from.
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Some good friends of mine here have a beautiful family who fled from Iran during that time period. I'm very concerned for them, and their kids.
 
NorCalBrock said:
I understand your fear - You were 8 years old when Sept. 11th happened, 10 when we invaded the wrong country, 14 when the greatest economic catastrophe has happened since the Great Depression. You've grown up in a crazy time. I'm not going to change your mind - FOX has a much louder megaphone.

But when you were 8, I was working two jobs and on my BA while I watched the twin towers burn to the ground and people jumping from the buildings. I then had friends who went to fight in the Afghanistan war. They went without the body armor or equipment while crony contractors stole and they came home without the benefits they deserved. Some didn't come home - some committed suicide.

When you were 10, I was marching against the war in Iraq. I knew it would lead to more senseless death and further destabilize the Mideast.

When you were 14, I was 29 and watched the bottom drop out of the economy- along went my great job and benefits.

So what did I do? I had to reinvent myself. I had to pull myself up by the bootstraps. I had to claw and fight my way back. I don't whine or cry about the bumpy journey and tough times we've all endured. The immigrant or lone wolf don't scare me because our country has endured more and worse.

8 years ago, your $22 dollar an hour job would have been a god send to us who were limping our way through - day-by-day. It isn't chump change my man. Be grateful...no one is entitled.






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Okay it's obvious your older then me. I apologize for that. So your non fear of isis inspired terrorism or illegal immigrants leads me to believe you are for open borders? and when I was whining about my wage as a climber is it safe to say that everyone agrees that our industry pays climbers exactly what we deserve?
 
Jem4417 said:
Okay it's obvious your older then me. I apologize for that. So your non fear of isis inspired terrorism or illegal immigrants leads me to believe you are for open borders? and when I was whining about my wage as a climber is it safe to say that everyone agrees that our industry pays climbers exactly what we deserve?
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I was just trying to connect with on an emotional level- I understand your feeling left out, left behind, frustrations, and uncertainty. But, things have a lot more nuance than us vs. them.

One of the things I really disliked about Hillary is she dismissed the millennial vote and came across like - "oh, those cute young kids. Their passion is cute - they'll get it some day". Passion and new ideas is priceless- paternalistic attitudes are degrading- so sorry I sound that way.

In 2006 I started out making $13 bucks with antiquated gear while climbing for my own dad. Not because he was a dick, but that is all we could manage at the time. But, we came up with a plan, stuck to it, and made changes over time. Now, I feel I get what I'm worth - I've invested in equipment, education, and marketing to build clients back up. I'm part owner now.

When it comes to climbing, I do it myself or hire a subcontractor when needed. They get paid on the prices they set and my need. They all make more than $22. But, they bring their own equipment , experience, etc. A climber on my payroll at $22 would cost $28 to $44 depending on the level of benefits provided - I can't afford that yet without volume and long term tree contracts. But, I want nothing more than anything in the world to pay people a great living and support their families - employees make or break a company.

It's nuanced.

As for borders, we have an immigration system that is complicated and needs to be fixed. Open borders is a media term and talking point.

Fact is, we are 65th in the world when it comes to illegal and legal immigration based on GDP and population. We don't have open borders. There is a vetting system. It needs to be improved. But do I believe we can handle our current levels - YES!

I live in CA for heavens sake. We are the worlds 3 to 5th largest economy. There is a labor shortage here and millions of immigrants. Everyone wants 99 cent avocados, cheap groceries, and many citizens won't do the long hours and hard work. I can't find guys who stick around long enough, can't stay sober, and who don't jump ship quickly. Fine, I deal as an operator on what to do differently and long term.

Im not going to change your mind, but change and issues are nuanced.

If you want more, build your value.




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Jem4417 said:
Okay it's obvious your older then me. I apologize for that. So your non fear of isis inspired terrorism or illegal immigrants leads me to believe you are for open borders? and when I was whining about my wage as a climber is it safe to say that everyone agrees that our industry pays climbers exactly what we deserve?
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Some climbers do and some climbers don't - depends on who you work for.

Assuming I'm for open borders would be like me assuming you support the KKK because David Duke supported Trump. I don't know you, would hope you have a deeper understanding of the world, and believe you have a better nature than that. I fully understand that Trump won for a myriad of reasons. The majority of his votes were not KKK inspired.


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And dude - you won. Celebrate the election. You aren't backed into a corner politically anymore - just hold them accountable for all the promises they made.

On the bright side, sounds like there will be some pretty awesome jobs with border security, customs, ICE, and the like. Fed wages, full benefits, etc.: unless they privatize it. ;-)


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I don't really think you are but how do you feel we should handle illegal immigration and what is our threshold on feeling responsible for the rest of the world. Tensions are high between America and the Middle East but we're bringing hundreds of thousands of men women and children over here when we barely know what to do to support the poverty stricken here
 
Tensions are high between middle easterners. Sunni vs Shia then throw in ethnic conflicts such asbthe Kurds. It makes Northern Ireland look like a 8th grade dance party. You you start adding in all the conflicts between these parties plus alliances with or against US, Russia, Turks, etc, a few solitary DAESH , Al Queda, or Taliban terrorists has to become secondary to potential conflicts between Super Powers. Very complicated situation. Israel is very much in the mix as well.
 
Jem4417 said:
I don't really think you are but how do you feel we should handle illegal immigration and what is our threshold on feeling responsible for the rest of the world. Tensions are high between America and the Middle East but we're bringing hundreds of thousands of men women and children over here when we barely know what to do to support the poverty stricken here
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And I think sensible reform. So I ask what's our threshold for the loss of civil liberties and tax money for a police state, deportation forces, or worse?



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