Fisherman's Knot: Double Vs Triple

[knudeNoggin]

Re: Fisherman\'s Knot: Double Vs Triple

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i'm going to say that i assume you are talking about Scaffold/ Triple Noose of an Anchor maid to self to form eye. ...

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Maybe my terminology isn't correct.
I didn't mean an Anchor Hitch, which I like except when you wnat the tail end parallel to the standing end.

Maybe my question should have been:
1. Fisherman's w/ 2 wraps
2. Fisherman's w/ 3 wraps ??

Greg

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As this thread shows, Mahk's recent article is MUCH needed (though I'd
have been stronger in admonishment).

I suggest that folks try the Anchor Hitch TO THE MAINLINE, instead of
the Strangle knot--an Anchor H. Noose, i.e.. This would be easier to
untie, at least, and my guess is that it should be stronger: in the one
test of the Strangle Noose (dbl.Overhand not treble) that reported the
break point, it was in the mainline where the Strangle tightly constricted
it (so, where mainline entered the knot); as the Anchor H., oriented to
bring the end hard around the ring to the mainline will deliver less
force, thus, and at a point beyond the mainline's entry, my conjecture
is that this should improve strength (though the noose is already
quite strong, so that's an academic aspect).

*kN*

 

[knudeNoggin]

Re: Fisherman\'s Knot: Double Vs Triple

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According to "On Rope" the TFK when tied and dressed properly is as strong as the rope is rated. Ei- no strength loss at the bend.

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Which should raise the question How was this determined?
I don't buy it, and there are contrary tests to this.
(But the OP concerns a noose, not a bend.)

*kN*

 

[knudeNoggin]

Re: Fisherman\'s Knot: Double Vs Triple

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Mangoes (I think) originally posted this article. Some of the names of the knots are wrong, including the knots that you ask about. But, the knots appear to have little difference in strength.

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Notably, the "Becket Bend" should be "Buntline Hitch",
and then the "...Fisherman's" issue, too.
=> 'Swabisch', yes,
But both Prusik & Klemheist are correctly spelled!

I find the data odd for the nooses: they show the Dbl/Tbl versions to
be essentially identickle [<-oop, a Spyderism escaped], each with
"DNF" (a bad thing, to a racer!) in 2 tests, and one "74%" ?! That's
quite a span, if the DNF is interpreted as "100%", so I wonder what
actually happened? And re the closed loops (the rightly named
knots in play, here), where the break came--in the bend/knot,
or at the pins? (former implies ~65-70% strength, which is about
right (and far from "as strong as the rope"!)

*kN*

 

[pancake]

Re: Fisherman\'s Knot: Double Vs Triple

What about the strength issue, does the fishermans affect rope strength? I have been involved in a heated debate over this today. I have a feeling I may have to eat crow.

 

[Fairfield]

Re: Fisherman\'s Knot: Double Vs Triple

anytime you take a rope out of its intended form, like by bending it in anyway, you will cut the strength of it in some manner. In the case of a D Fisherman it is said that even under a metered test the rope will hold to the normal strenght of the rope. Best rule of thumb always think with every knot or hitch you are cutting the strenght down.

All that crap said we all for the most part climb on rope that will hold 7,000 lbs, good luck breaking that under youre own weight.

 

[knudeNoggin]

Re: Fisherman\'s Knot: Double Vs Triple

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What about the strength issue, does the fishermans affect rope strength? I have been involved in a heated debate over this today. I have a feeling I may have to eat crow.

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It would help to know exactly what is being debated,
and what "affect strength" amounts to? It's not clear to me from the few
bits of testing that I've seen, but I surmise that the Strangle Noose (with
either 1 or 2 overwraps (Poacher's/Scaffold, to use some names) retains
a great deal of rope strength. (Your "heated debate" could be confusing
knots with the "fisherman's" moniker, too.)

*kN*

 

[treebear]

Re: Fisherman\'s Knot: Double Vs Triple

As far as I can see all the knots are plenty strong enough. Anothe rissue is how they perform and how stable they are. I started climbing on figure of eight, then switched to bowline, now I use the double fisher/strangling/knot/noose simply because it fixes my biner in a position where the load is distributed along its back/spine. It is meaningless to discuss whether a knot is so or so strong as long as it allows the biner to be loaded over the gate where it can take max 7kN (Petzl Williams). Another issue is how much load can the body take and how to rate the anchorpoints? Remember - no chain is stronger then its weakest link.
Svein

 

[pancake]

Re: Fisherman\'s Knot: Double Vs Triple

My take is that the knot does weaken the rope because of the above mentoined turns and friction that is created by the knot, nomenclature is not an issue. The other side of the discussion is that the knt is neutral, in other words not weakening the rope.