Face cut in dead trees

Tom Dunlap

Tom Dunlap

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This afternoon I talked with a fellow who cut a standing dead tree down that he was taught in a felling class never to put a face cut into a dead tree. He says that he was taught that a face cut would weaken the tree too much.

After trying to get him to site chapter and verse...or the name of the instructor...he couldn't remember so I let it, the subject, not the tree...drop.

This is contrary to anything that I have ever read, heard or been taught. All regs and recommendations say that any stem over 5" diameter, sometimes less, needs to have a face cut.

Has anyone EVER heard of not putting a face into a dead stem?
 
Ha. I like to know who taught him that.

I bet the guy really meant a rotten tree. I've done that, just slapped a backcut and cut it. But never a solid tree.
 
yes, i have heard of this.

some say it is easier and safer (keep in mind I am talking timber) to flat cut it and wedge it over.

by flat cutting, I am referring to cutting the heart of the tree out, leaving the root flares to be cut after you have your directional wedges pounded in.
 
Never heard of that one. Always put a face in, the only exception would be a heavy head leaner using a Coos bay or strip cut. I wdo't think one would be inclined to do that to a tree thats so punky that you're concerned about a facecut. If its that bad sounds like a tree for powder or equipment. Maybe another East coast thing?
wink.gif
 
There are times I "fall" trees without a "scarf/face cut". That method of putting a tree on the ground is legitimate, however rarely needed.

It would not be suitable to be shown as part of a falling course. Tom's contact doesn't recolect the exact context of the info and that would highlight how information like this could be mixed up.

This approach to putting the tree down is mostly refered to as "cripleing". Whilst similar to falling it looses some of its accuracy and control compared with normal falling practices.
 
Graeme, that is also the way that I was taught by a old time logger who called it "CRIPPLING" the tree.

I have only used it one time, and that was out in the woods on a dead snag. Scary as hell!

I believe that forest fire fighters who fall dead/burning snags use this technique often.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I was taught by a old time logger who called it "CRIPPLING" the tree.


[/ QUOTE ]

It wont be the tree that gets crippled if you try this technique!
 
It wont be the tree that gets crippled if you try this technique!

[/ QUOTE ]

When I cut the snag it was a heavy forward leaner and I new where it was going to go. Still didn't like doing it but the skidder wasn't around and we needed to get that snag out of the way.
 
There may be some logic to it under theoretical circumstances, what they are i do not know.

I was once going to drop a dead tree. I started to cut my notch, bottom cut first. As i started the bottom cut the tree started twisting,i quick made my angle cut and started the back cut to drop it.

All went well, i'm lucky it was not a big tree. the scarey thing is, i'm really not sure what i should have done differently?
 
I can't imagine an instance where a single cut would be better than using a notch for felling, but maybe I'm not imaginative.
 
"crippling" a stick is somehting one would do when putting down several trees with a driver tree. Its not a common practice for falling snags. As to it being a common techn ique for snag falling on wildfires, I would have to disagree with that statement. Proper sizeup and cutting technique is even more critical on snags, burning trees. Though special cuts may be used in certain circumstances, they are not the norm. There is a reason why standards dictate a face/backcut on stems over 5".
 
Tom, I'm assuming by no face cut you mean no cut from the front at all. I can imagine if the tree was really rotten/hollow you may want to keep what solid surface wood you had as a hinge, but a hinge that far forward brings up other problems that you had better know how to deal with. Omitting the face cut should involve way more thought than is the tree dead or not, but if it is a reasonably solid tree I would definitely use a face cut. Last weekend I was making some firewood and I dropped a 20” DBH X 90' DF that died last winter. A normal face and back cut put it right where it was supposed to go, though I spent most of my time looking up as I tapped the wedges.

Be safe,

Cary
 
Hi all
This topic is very interesting, i have been felling trees for 20 years, and i will always use a face cut of some capacity, you need to look at the tree you are felling the landing area, is the tree rotten or dead the lean of the tree,we all know different felling techniques and we all know that we must always be in control of the tree that we are felling not just hoping for the best and to do so you need hinge wood. Take care
 
Ive mixed opinion on this topic, i think in the context of training and assssment then standard felling techniques should be adheared to. However these techniques we are taught or learn are in my opinion only a foundation to our skill. From my experience I know what i can get away with and what i cant in regards to felling whether on or off ground, how many of u when repollarding loads of multileadered carpinus or tilia with telephone lines,fences or pathways around your drop area do face cuts? do u not just judge the speed of yr cut diagonally thru a vertical stem wait till u get a lean then run the rest of the hold off so the stem drops straight down. maybe with larger stems over 8-9" its not too safe.

As arborists our own internal grasp of physics is a huge part of what keeps us safe, this may may upset a few of you but my opinion is "if u know it wrks then why not use it" we are in a dynamic industry and there are obviously golden rules, however isnt part of our skill being able to confidently risk assess and say "ok i know this will work..." and get the job done

devils advocate maybe.. but..
 
All very good points. As far as Tom asking if there is anything taught on this subject, I was able to find the following in Jerry Beranek's great book "The Fundamentals Of General Tree Work". Chapter 33 - Dead Trees, pages 372-373: "Conventional falling cuts are sometimes useless or dangerous in badly rotten trees, such as shell and goose pens. Fall rotten trees in the direction of their lean or favor. Don't attempt to force a badly rotten tree over with wedges. Crippling the stump and pulling the tree may be a safer way to fall some snags if a regular falling cut can't be made. Crippling is the act of placing major or minor crosscuts and bore cuts in the stump to prompt the tree to break over. If you're pulling the tree, be very careful when tensioning the pull line. You can easily pull the top out of a snag or rotten tree."

If you guys and gals don't have a copy of Jer's awesome book , you're missing out on a wealth of info.

Maybe we can get Jer to post on this subject as I'm sure he has alot of experience in the matter.

Chris
 
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