Exposing hacks

Nish

Nish

Branched out member
Location
North Carolina
The "Licensed Arborist..." thread got me thinking about free-market solutions. I'd like feedback on a rough idea.

Posing as a naive homeowner, suppose I get each of the local, advertising tree services to give advice and estimates for the same trees on a given property, so as to test the arborist and thereafter publish the documented results online. I would find out whether, e.g., the arborist would recommend an unnecessary removal, recognize a hazard, drop a tree on a septic field, and correctly identify species. I would ask if they would use spikes to prune, and I would find out about their insurance status and their price for the job.

Is it worth my time? Some tree services offer free visits and estimates. I am in a new area and trying to pick up work. I'd learn useful information about pricing. If I published the results on my website, prospective clients would have a reason to visit my site, even if just out of curiosity. Arborists scoring well would be motivated to link my page. Should the results yield a tantalizing headline (like this) I could send it a local news service.

Others could use the template and publish on an independent website. Or, I could offer a traveling service. Sponsoring arborists might be said to have a conflict of interests; their effect, nonetheless, would increase tree literacy.

I dislike the subterfuge. I wonder about the local bitterness I would create. Are there legal hazards? What am I not considering? I don't quite have the nerve to do this, at least right now.
 
The simple term for this is business intelligence, collecting information about your competition's business practices. This is done throughout the corporate world, legitimately and otherwise. However, one of the first things taught in selling is to not disparage your competition. Doing this to learn about your competition is one thing, to publish it is a completely different ball game. While you may feel it's fact based what is going on in the reader's mind is likely something totally different.

Your first two concerns are linked, while you may not know anyone now, you will as you build your brand recognition in your market. You may actually be calling on some of these competitors to assist on a job, eg., crane, bucket or other equipment rental/borrowing. At the least you'll be running into them at suppliers, industry functions even sales calls. If you're the one to have pulled off the ruse then they'll recognize you and not be happy they were played. Look around the arborist forums and FB arbo groups to see just how bitter some of the guys can get when they think they're getting f'd over. If you want to gather information on your competition, then get someone you know to do the call. Just make sure it's a legit job that will be awarded. You bid on it yourself then compare notes.

The legal hazards are defamation suits, unfair business practices complaints, and then we get into the retribution hazards as well. Your equipment could fall prey to sabotage or vandalism. We're not known as the gentlest folk in business! Even when you're on the side of angels your signage will be removed (if you're using lawn signs or any other type), no sense in giving them even more reason to attack your business.

There are tons of review sites like, Angie's List, Yelp, Yahoo, Google, and organizations, BBB, etc.... so there is a market for this type of business intelligence. In each instance though, they are not directly involved in the industry but are considered third party unbiased sources. While in some instances the lack of bias may be questionable, the consumer is more likely to go to one of these than a local new business to get the dirt. We have a local mom's site that we monitor for the latest "reviews" of us and others. The internet is the new party line. In case you don't know, once upon a time, there was a cheap option for phone service called a party line. You could pick up your home phone and listen in on every one's conversation or join in.

We can and often do work as a co-opetition. Competitors who cooperate in some regards of business. A final note, look at how big the community is you'll be working in. Does it afford anonymity or is everyone related to each other? Just imagine you've pissed off the guy whose brother is also the local police chief.
 
...also might want to consider the obvious... the likelihood that you'll do all of this and that none of the other tree services will catch on that you're also doing tree work isn't high. Someone will figure it out right away, and that could backfire on you. When we were doing roofing, we'd print up a checklist of things that the contractor should be doing, and should be telling you about when they give the estimate. Stuff the homeowner is very unlikely to think about, but makes a big difference. I would include the list, which had a brief paragraph following each item explaining why it was important, with every estimate I gave. We were swamped with work and the only advertising we ever did was a couple of yard signs and business cards.

This method tells the homeowner what constitutes a good contractor, what they should reasonably expect, and does so without ever mentioning another contractor at all. Most homeowners will immediately realize the difference on their own, once they are given the tools to do this. You'll be shocked at how many of them will use the list to ask every contractor they call questions about the specifics of the job. They may still go with someone else, but chances are good that when they recommend someone to their friends and neighbors, it will be you they remember. And it will be you they remember if the other guys don't do a good job... they'll call you next time.
 
I was thinking of hiring a grad student or a retired volunteer at the local arboretum to run the test, but then disclose the results and my part in it on the website. But Treehumper is convincing. It all seems imprudent given the hostilities I'd likely incur. And right now I can't think of any easy tweaks that could sidestep these problems well enough. This strikes me as bit of a shame. It's the need to stay on amicable terms with the competition at the cost passing up a potentially effective way to expose, as an insider, the seedy elements of one's own industry. It's not quite collusion, but it's in that direction.
 
Not my circus. Not my monkeys. When I moved to a new town last year the first thing I did was call all the local tree services and ask if they needed climbers. It was fall and no one was hiring a new guy. I pruned up a locust and maple for my girlfriend and started calling the same guys I called a week before to come chip my piles. When they showed up to give me a bid they asked who pruned up these trees nice and sexy. I told them that I did. I have 15 years as a working arborist and this is what I do. I told them that I was the guy that called a week before looking for some work climbing. I met one guy from that recon that I sub- climb for on a regular basis and I got to introduce my self to a couple of the local hacks and let them know who the new competition in town is.
5 months later, I am splitting my time between sub work and being my own Circus Master. Calm quiet professionalism is my only means of expression.
 
I feel the attraction of minding one's own business, and of not sticking the neck out for concerns beyond those that are particularly one's own. Probably there's a kind of attractive aesthetic here, but I see it mostly as merely the prudential high ground. It isn't necessarily the ethical high ground. And I don't think the problems created by shady practices will resolve themselves if only a few people excel at their businesses. I'm okay with this. I don't think anyone is required to stick his or her neck out for these things.
 
Your experiment sounds like a great learning tool for commercial arborist associations to use as a tool to identify the short falls, and the hacks in a given area.
It sounds like a horrible idea for a business owner to use against their competition. Your companies work and your sales efforts will, or should provide a good living if done with a concentrated and ethical effort from you and all of your employees.
This type of thing would not provide you with any new friends, this I guarantee!
 
Nish said:
The "Licensed Arborist..." thread got me thinking about free-market solutions. I'd like feedback on a rough idea.

Posing as a naive homeowner, suppose I get each of the local, advertising tree services to give advice and estimates for the same trees on a given property, so as to test the arborist and thereafter publish the documented results online. I would find out whether, e.g., the arborist would recommend an unnecessary removal, recognize a hazard, drop a tree on a septic field, and correctly identify species. I would ask if they would use spikes to prune, and I would find out about their insurance status and their price for the job.

Is it worth my time? Some tree services offer free visits and estimates. I am in a new area and trying to pick up work. I'd learn useful information about pricing. If I published the results on my website, prospective clients would have a reason to visit my site, even if just out of curiosity. Arborists scoring well would be motivated to link my page. Should the results yield a tantalizing headline (like this) I could send it a local news service.

Others could use the template and publish on an independent website. Or, I could offer a traveling service. Sponsoring arborists might be said to have a conflict of interests; their effect, nonetheless, would increase tree literacy.

I dislike the subterfuge. I wonder about the local bitterness I would create. Are there legal hazards? What am I not considering? I don't quite have the nerve to do this, at least right now.
Click to expand...
Not worth it.
 
Yup. It's tempting but as has been said, Show off your work and as JeffGu does provide a fact sheet of what to look for in a professional. If you're walking the walk then you'll stand out. Volunteer to do some pruning at a local arboretum, school, place of worship, or non-profit organization.

However, one thing you could do is report blatant infractions of codes. Whether they be OSHA or ISA code of ethics violations, take note and let the powers that be do their job. This comes with it's own risks though.
 
Had a local guy using me often as the price setter...he would tell a potential customer to get a written estimate form me and he would beat it. Became so common I could smell it, homeowners would lie so terrible as to why they needed a written estimate when hardly anyone was asking for written estimates. I find the most legit people that ask for written estimates have bigger jobs/ several trees with different prices, so they can digest it all mentally. Or old people with poor memory. At first I was pissed realizing my waste of time when I saw he did the work. Then I found it to be a compliment. In my direct market, I'm the only fully insured, full time tree service that buckets and climbs the biggest/trickiest trees around. There are more experienced climbers around with out bucket trucks and no workers comp on their guys, then there are bucket truck only guys with workers comp. Personally, I could not imagine owning a tree service and not being a climber as a foundation.
 
In my town there was this one plumbing contractor who would do such things, making complaints to regulating bodies, his shop somehow "burnt down" and it took years, but he eventually lost all business and is now pretty much destitute. IMHO best practice is to observe the short comings of others and strive to do better.
 
I always love it when I'm asked to bid a job, and the customer knows the name of all the trees in question, and says things like, "Lift the canopy, thin the crown, remove dead wood less than an 1" in diameter, and haul away all debris..."
It makes me want to say, "Email me the other estimates with photos of the trees and photos of debris removal access."

I know this really isn't "being positive" and I typically just bid the job when I'm in the area, but to an extent we have to fleece the bad clients too.
 
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