Escalator Vs HTP access rope

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Hello,
Due to the stiffness of the Escalator line, I have noticed that it kicks out more than my 10mm HTP. The Escalator line is very stiff in my opinion, which is also a plus when using it as an access line. I just found it to be a little less Pantin/user friendly. You really have to keep your body position and force directed with this line.

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That makes sense. Sounds like a little more paying attention while ascending will take care of it.
-AJ
 
DSMc,

I appreciate your thought on static line, and also must chime in here to add a detail on what you mentioned.

It's true that static line doesn't and shouldn't be fallen onto, if at all possible. Just like double roping, falls are to be avoided.

However, I HAVE fallen as tie-in points have broken under the full weight of my SRT line. It must be mentioned that these falls broke one! of my multiple redirects under my SRT line, and it was a very cushy fall. I would venture to say cushier than the few falls I've taken on drt climbing.

As long as you aren't tied into one branch, or over one branch, and you are using some crotches, the effect of the no-elasticity of the static line is minimized during a fall because of the numerous redirects and length of rope used.

Still, falls are to be avoided. I just don't think they are much MORE of a risk with static versus dynamic rope, since the systems themselves are soooo different.

Btw, i don't use toothed ascenders on my line, other than my Pantin, so my statement doesn't take their threat to your line into account.
 
Dave: very true, have you guys seen what my mate Drew Bristow did the other week in Auckland NZ, drop tests using common setups:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/DBTree/211439958885287
(scroll down his page a bit)
He set up a 80kg weight and did a series of drop tests, one was using the tree frog setup.... petzl ascenion, croll. the croll literally ate the sheath off, and got so stuck in the cam it was a mission to get off (and that was on the ground).
It really made me think, many of us ascending a big tree on the tree frog or similar have thought 'if im actually on a piece of deadwood...or this point gives'. Then yes a super static line is a real problem, therefore the solution has gotta be in our system.
I know blokes that put their footlock klemheist above hand acender, moving it with left hand so in case of failure the prussic will catch before the toothed devices, and if anything help share the load so one toothed device does not eat the sheath.
 
Hey Rob! One thing to consider for travelling with an access line is "stowability". I have a stupidly long 130m length of HTP for tall tree access which i dig the performance of, but it is very stiff to stow into a bag and therefore very bulky. A soft, supple, very stowable, lightweight, low stretch alternative is Donaghys 10mm Spectraspeed, or if you win the lotto 10mm ArmorPrus!

Drews testing was great! The wrench results were impressive, the toothed can set ups not so....but not suprising.
 
Very true Trevor...very true, my biggest problem when travelling is the weight of my rope, (plus camera's...everything's heavy) esp if Ive got 2 of them! guess another reason to get on the rope wrench train. Man I'm impressed with them after climbing with Drew in NZ last week. amazing tool.
 
Do it, DO IT.

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Not to derail but when it comes to using the wrench I find the KM MAX way more hitch friendly than even the regular KMIII or HTP. It's waxy coating is a pain when you first get used to gripping it with your hands but once you do I find it offers great control during descents and swings and is incredibly smooth when ascending or pulling in slack. I would like to try the Escalator but so far I don't think I like what I hear. My .02
 
I like HTP in 10mm, Snakebite is hard to see in a tree though.

Fall factor should probably get rehashed now that so many people are working on static rope but if you look at DdRT vs. SRT, SRT will usually transmit less energy to the climber than DdRT because of the length of rope in the system and the fact that doubled rope stretches less than single rope.
Just like Dave said, the energy transmitted to the TIP is much higher, usually something near twice as much. It depends on the tree and how the rope is routed but if both legs of the rope are in free air just before contacting the TIP, you have a typical 2x scenario.

The rope usually routes through the tree bending around branches and running against the trunk. That gives the whole system more capacity to absorb shock because everything gives a bit an the load applies more slowly.

You can't practically compute how much energy a given system will absorb, you have to just use it an get a feel for what works best.

The tree structure has the most potential for failure, be nice to it and don't risk shocking your TIP an SRT will be your friend for life... although there will be some kinda worrying ascents sometimes.
 
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... although there will be some kinda worrying ascents sometimes.

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I have to agree with this. This is one of the biggest worries for me and SRT. I am starting to trust my choices though.
 
Rob, do you plan to use this line for access only, or to 'work' on? If it's access only, the Escalator might be a good bet, though as previously stated, it has a bunch of 'memory'. Maybe this could be something that lends to it kicking out of some folks Pantins. Careful technique during ascension should keep the accidental "pop-outs" from occurring.

I've been taking the time to isolate in some cases, or in others, I will hit a larger limb for a base tie and raise to isolate a higher TIP manually when I reach it, using a mid-line attachable FS.

From my limited experience on either line, I prefer the KM III over the Escalator. This is because I will be working on it. The KM III diameter is nice on the hands, and even my 1/2" runs nicely through the Wrench. I'd sure like to give a hank of 7/16" KM III a try for access AND for working.
 
well Ive gone and got KM III. Sounds like the Escilator or very stiff, and as the say great as pure accent but not great in the tree, maybe as it wears in.... time will tell eh. I also do rope access and the KM has the goods to comply there also, so I can use it both big trees and structure without a problem. Also it just seems like its a winner. The HTP I was very keen on as its so widely loved but so static (1.7 elongation at 300 lbs??? roughlly??...Vs 2.9 for KM III) so had to pass on that. Ill be using it on the rope wrench, so will let you know on thoughts in a few months.
Massive thanks fellas... its so great to have so much great advice so quick when ya making a important climbing purchase.
Thanks==Rob
 
Rob, I'd love to hear from you and the guys in CT about your KM III and their Escalator. Im pretty certain I'll be after some 7/16" KM III (Max, maybe?) this season. I'm gonna run my current 1/2" for a good while. Best of luck!
 
Eric if you are using the wrench I strongly recommend trying the KMMax before just purchasing the III. It is way different, more than the name suggests. I actually prefer the III for just foot locking but the Max is way better for working a hitch and wrench. As a prusik with it I use 8mmOP.
 
I need some more time on the escalator line but i'm thinking i like 10mm HTP better.

I'll keep you posted to see how this thing brakes in
 
The escalator does soften up very nicely, that wiry feeling goers away after some use, and it has a great feel too it, while retaining some stiffness.

Haven't climbed on HTP, cant compare notes there
 
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Eric if you are using the wrench I strongly recommend trying the KMMax before just purchasing the III. It is way different, more than the name suggests. I actually prefer the III for just foot locking but the Max is way better for working a hitch and wrench. As a prusik with it I use 8mmOP.

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Thanks for the input, Weaver. The twill pattern is different, correct? What is the difference in the feel of the hitch, or the ease of passage through the wrench, if you know?
 
on the Max it's a whole lot tighter. which makes the hitch run very smooth. even if you sit on your hitch for extended periods of time the moment you pull in slack its as close to effortless as I have ever had on hitch and rope. its almost close to the feel of a mechanical adjuster.
all that though is a little bit of a detriment to foot locking since the line is very slick, which I only do here and there to train for the comp, in which case I will use the kmIII I bought from tom dunlap, which is old and grainy and easier to grab with your boots.
 
I just used escalator today. It was hard adjusting to the stiffness of the line. I think that I have become comfortable with the stretch of poisong ivy and even a little comforted by it. The escalator is very static more so than the KMIII. Other than that it is very light. which is a plus. But it is not very supple. I Think I will stick to 24 strand ropes for now. I think that I want to run the vortex. Ive also been hearing great things about the Rocket line\
 
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