Endless loop in tenex?

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Orange, MA
I found some small splicing instructions through Sampson online that says to treat an endless loop like an end to end splice, just using 2x the length of the desired loop.

Only thing is I'm wanting to just do a 30" or so endless loop with a ring spliced in for use on a friction saver, so I'd essentially end up with a 30" loop with 2 straight buries and no overlap?

I'm just wondering whats the best way to do this, and have it be secure. Is there any way to include a locking brummel, or if I should just factor in for a good overlap with the straight buries?

Thanks!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I found some small splicing instructions through Sampson online that says to treat an endless loop like an end to end splice, just using 2x the length of the desired loop.

Only thing is I'm wanting to just do a 30" or so endless loop with a ring spliced in for use on a friction saver, so I'd essentially end up with a 30" loop with 2 straight buries and no overlap?

I'm just wondering whats the best way to do this, and have it be secure. Is there any way to include a locking brummel, or if I should just factor in for a good overlap with the straight buries?

Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you gonna splice a ring in both ends or just 1? I've done both. One application for a friction saver (ring & ring) and the other to prusik on a friction saver, to make it adjustable, with a small ring only.
 
I was just going to butt splice the other end and put the small ring on the prussik. Want something in the area of 10', ended up maxing out my 6' blocking down the trunk on a big pine and kept wishing I had larger.

I suppose I could always just do a ring on both ends as well though, although it will likely not really ever see any use.
 
Do the Brummell leave a really long tail after the final bury. Use the tail and the non working end of the rope for the endless loop splice.

It's gunna be think. I did something similar for a Mar-Bar tether.

The loop to the left is a locking Brummell the loop to the right is formed with the tail after the bury. The other loop to the right is the same thing going down to another loop to form the whole tether.

Tony
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Defenitly interesting Stuff, but something different from what I search (as I understand your Comment right?).

I mean a "open" Loop, like a Prussic Loop.

Any further ideas on hoe to lock it?
I tried some things like doing a Möbius Brummel for a Loop, but didnt get it right.
Do you Guys even think there can be a Way?!
 
I believe it is mathematically impossible without unbraiding the rope (which Nick likes to do). It is also completely unnecessary if your buries are long enough and the splices are stitched.

For an "endless" loop you really only need the full bury on one side. The other tail can be quite short, though you will want to bury it to keep it out of the way. To say this another way, you don't need 2 splices to hold the loop together at full rated strength, only one. Good stitching at the throat, as always, is required.
 
Not to butt in but just look at the loopie sling splice. With out looking it up it calls for something like a 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 fid bury. So basically to make a loop you would make a loopie sling and instead of back splicing the tail to make a adjustable handle you would taper and milk the tail in. Now with the other end you could knot it, whip it, back splice it, or bury it.

I'm sure that one could bury say like 3-5 fids taper the last fid, and do a cross over bury with the opposite tail of 1.5 fids or so. Just depends on how long you want the loop.
 
Waldo, I made this sound simpler than it really is. There is an experimental side to my method and a speculative side. And a practical side: I actually have several loops made as I describe, including a some small 1/4-inch Amsteel Blue tethers for hand ascenders which I use all the time.

The speculative part has to do with the manufacturers' splicing instructions. Nowhere do they guarantee that a splice made to specs can never come apart, but I assume that most of us believe that that is the case. They know we rely on their specs, that we hang on these splices, that people use them in ways they never imagined, underwater, in tanks of oil, whatever. It would be very bad press for them if splices started coming apart, so they made the specs so conservative that even under the worst possible scenario a proper splice should hold.

What is the worst possible scenario? This is where the testing comes in. Imagine a proper splice that creates a large eye about a foot long. If you were to test the splice by pulling on the eye with a carabiner or a shackle, each leg of the eye would bear about 1/2 the total tension, meaning only half the total tension is actually trying to extract the bury from the cover. But if you were to sever the cover leg of the eye very close to the throat, then you could pull directly on the bury leg. Now the full tension on the rope is trying to extract the bury, the worst possible scenario for the splice to withstand.

This was the setup I used when I wanted to test splices because this was a pure test of the splice without any interference (and help) from the shackle pin. Whenever the splice was made to spec it never failed by coming apart--the rope always broke first. In order to get the splice to fail I usually had to make it much shorter than spec. And remember, we're talking about the extreme case in which we're pulling directly on the buried core.

From this I concluded that the official specs really are designed to cover the extreme case I described. But we don't know for sure.

Using only one full bury in a loop is a case of the worst possible scenario because the full tension in the rope is trying to pull the splice apart. For the short bury I use whatever is convenient to handle, say half a fid. I thoroughly stitch the throat area of both buries so that even the short bury can hold a lot of load.

Since the official specs don't guarantee us anything, and the manufacturers don't tell us how conservative the specs are, it is up to us to figure this out for ourselves and use our own best judgement.
 
Thanks for the kind words, Waldo, but I'm afraid the "book" wouldn't amount to more than a short pamphlet.

The rope manufacturers have engineers who know the math and physics of splices inside out; they should post a nice technical discussion of all this online. They have great technical articles on other aspects of rope use. Splice physics must be very low on their list of interests.
 

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