Employing lanyard SRT-style: descending?

[LordFarkwad]

Thanks, SW. I've tied this one before, but never used it! It seems more difficult to mis-tie than the bowline with a Y finish, even tho that seems butt simple. Was just looking at Muggs' videos about tying it wrong causing it to capsize the knot in some circumstances.

 

[climbstihl]

I believe the water bowline is when you use a clove hitch instead of the one or two loops.

 

[SomethingWitty]

That's what it says. Sounds secure, but it adds a step.

 

[LordFarkwad]

Rock the cinch. I did it the other day to change the load direction on my TIP. It is a nifty trick and it eliminates falling to your death from going over a basal point. Just remember to untie it on the way down.

These pictures are the before (canopy access base tie), solution (butterfly and quickie to a lead opposite the direction of my work), and result (a reasonable direction to load this mature silver maple lead that had a funky union and lots of storm damage that I needed to get to).
It's not the same as scenario as yours, but the technique is solid. It's much quicker and easier than having your line untied and pulling it up to reset with a predirected canopy anchor.

SW, exactly what did you do to move the basal side of your line? Did you convert to lanyard-only climbing until you secured the canobase to the alternate location?

 

[LordFarkwad]

Rock the cinch. I did it the other day to change the load direction on my TIP. It is a nifty trick and it eliminates falling to your death from going over a basal point. Just remember to untie it on the way down.

Apologies for the delayed digestion process on your posts...

How does one fall over his basal anchor??

 

[SomethingWitty]

By stepping into the union that one is base tied through without another means of attachment and going over.

I just got to the point in the canopy that I could set it up and threw on a lanyard and pulled slack in my primary system.
If I had to walk away from where the rope on the other side of the union was (meaning I couldn't reach the rope that I needed to tie), I'd probably just clip a carabiner from a lower D or my bridge into the anchor leg and then walk out and lanyard off to set it. That is sometimes a handy trick, especially for cleaning up stubs next to the trunk. It can give you a more secure position and keeps your ropes right where you can see them.

 

[LordFarkwad]

By stepping into the union that one is base tied through without another means of attachment and going over.

I just got to the point in the canopy that I could set it up and threw on a lanyard and pulled slack in my primary system.
If I had to walk away from where the rope on the other side of the union was (meaning I couldn't reach the rope that I needed to tie), I'd probably just clip a carabiner from a lower D or my bridge into the anchor leg and then walk out and lanyard off to set it. That is sometimes a handy trick, especially for cleaning up stubs next to the trunk. It can give you a more secure position and keeps your ropes right where you can see them.

Still having trouble following...

So you set the normal basal from the ground and climbed over to the spot you want to set the canobase at? Could you reach the anchor leg from that spot??

The trick where you clip into the basal leg - are you still putting your weight onto the working end of your climb line while you are maneuvering to the position you want to set the new canobase at?

 

[SomethingWitty]

Yeah. I could.

And yeah. You can. You may have to pause every step or two and tug some slack over your TIP, but it will feed and have a feel approximating a moving rope system (a pretty unpleasant one).

 

[LordFarkwad]

10-4. Comprende.

 

[moss]

Thanks, @DSMc. That certainly boosts my confidence. I'll try it out next time I get to climb. Is it the norm for most folks to do anything with the tail after the Y finish? E.g., stopper, double overhand tail to working end, or something?

This is one of the ways I finish a Running Bowline for a basal anchor, I use the "Yosemite Tie-off" more to redirect the tail above the Bowline and then tie a Double Overhand around the standing part. It will never ever come out no matter how many times it's loaded/unloaded, shaken, whatever ;-)

 

[LordFarkwad]

Had a small pruning job today and got several opportunities to try the double bowline on my basal anchor TIP. I finished it by taking the tail going down into the loop and just doing a double overhand around the strand forming the loop. Kind of a combination of the anchors @moss and @SomethingWitty showed. I didn't practice the Y-finish before going out to the job, so I didn't want to try tying it for the first time there, given the consequences, but I was familiar with the double bowline, and also wanted to back it up (superfluous, right?). Worked well, and actually is a little quicker to tie than the running AB I usually tie!

 

[LordFarkwad]

Guys, check behind me here and make sure I'm not going nuts or blind...

In Patrick/@Muggs 's video, he shows the proper Yosemite Finish as being tied with the tail exiting on the same side of the standing end that the tail originally entered the rabbit hole from. In the Wiki and netKnots articles linked below, it looks to me like the Yosemite Finish exits on the opposite side that he has it finishing.

I wouldn't think that'd be a problem, except Patrick is saying that the critical element that could make the knot untie itself in some situations is the very detail that is different between his and these other methods of tying it.

Which one is correct?? Crossing over one last time, as in the articles below certainly makes the strands in the knot lay together much better than the one in Patrick's vid, but so what?

Edit: having tied both of these, at least with the very supple rope I have laying at my desk (and not a harder rope, as he mentions in the video being an exacerbating factor to this issue), there doesn't seem to be a huge difference between these two ways, if they are dressed correctly. I can't speak to what happens if they are crappily dressed and loaded.

https://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/yosemite-bowline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yosemite_bowline#/media/File:YosemitebowlineBulin1_5.jpg

Another edit: it appears that Mumford/@yoyoman ties it as Patrick does...

 

[LordFarkwad]

@moss - it appears from your photo that you finish the way the Wiki and netKnots show - with the tail exiting on the opposite side of the standing end from where the tail originally entered the rabbit hole. Is this correct?

Edit: I think if I'm going to tie this knot, it is a simple matter of correctly setting it. Found a couple of posts on it here. Would love to hear others' input still, but apologies for beating what looks to be a dead horse.

 

[Brocky]

The only thing different between the two is the regular Yosemite’s tail runs along side the standing part before exiting. The other version crosses over the standing part before exiting. It doesn’t look like there is an advantage of one over the other, except for the appearance, as you stated.

 

[moss]

The only thing different between the two is the regular Yosemite’s tail runs along side the standing part before exiting. The other version crosses over the standing part before exiting. It doesn’t look like there is an advantage of one over the other, except for the appearance, as you stated.

I like the tail crossing the standing part, I find it fits in there nicely and sets more firmly than the tail positioned parallel to the standing part. Either is perfectly good, individual preference prevails.
-AJ

 

[LordFarkwad]

I don't see anything obvious, but is there a downside to doing this? Double bowline + double overhand backup on tail:

 

[Brocky]

There are many variations of bowline locks, the one you show is one of them. One down side is it part of with the loop.

 

[DSMc]

I like the tail crossing the standing part, I find it fits in there nicely and sets more firmly than the tail positioned parallel to the standing part...

This is how I tie it also. It does set more firmly. It is interesting that the two who have expressed concerns about its stability, enough to make videos about it, both tie it the other way.

A ropes knotability is going to be the biggest factor with a bowlines stability. Test what you have and see how it does. One of the main reasons for using a Bowline is how easy it is to both tie and untie. If it will not hold to your satisfaction on the rope you are using, it would probably be better to go with a different knot.

 

[SomethingWitty]

I have always tied it parallel. I don't remember how I learned it, but that's just the way I know. I'm going to try trying it with the tail crossing and see if it sits better with me/dresses easier.

 

[moss]

I have always tied it parallel. I don't remember how I learned it, but that's just the way I know. I'm going to try trying it with the tail crossing and see if it sits better with me/dresses easier.

The parallel Yosemite is the way I learned it, I accidentally tied it the other way and decided it was a little better.
-AJ