Employee problems

Jasonk

Participating member
I have an employee who's been with me for about 8 years. He is seasonal, so usually mid December he gets laid off for about 3 months give or take. Every year around oct he starts to get lazy....slow to get going in the am, forgetting or not paying attention to direction, standing around etc. I've spoke with him multiple times and it seems when the conversation ends he forgets and doesn't care?

Well today I watched him drop a chain saw on the ground, brake the handle and put it back as if it never happened. It's a back up saw thats buried in the box and only comes out as needed. I gave him the day to come clean..... and nothing. I have a big investment in him as he does myself but I feel like it may be time to part ways?

I guess I'm just looking for some outside looking in opinions before I seal the deal.

Thanks in advance!
Jason
 
From the information you provided, I would have a hard time letting him go if he has been around 8 years.

What does he do....ground, climb, bucket????

We have issues with bad attitudes all the time and I have tried all sorts of things to try to get employees to care about what they do.

What do you pay him and can he be replaced easily? What is his future potential?
 
you may suffer short term by parting ways .....In fact several weeks after he is gone you may be kicking yourself!!!
HOWEVER , for me this is almost a slam dunk!! its a character issue....he breaks something of yours and doesnt tell you and you caught him??!! liar ? much
What are the long term consequences of keeping him? that is the real question. DONT we need to trust each other in this biz? .step back and reflect on this one bro>? i think it will beecome clear?
 
He has been with me for a long time I agree. In fact that's part of it.....shouldn't you know how to act and what I expect after 8 years. I feel like I may be holding on to him because its easy and I don't want to have to deal with replacing. He does ground work and a lot of our ornamental pruning. Makes around $20hr with bennies. I believe he has also perceived that he is irreplaceable. My wife feels like I need to talk with him like a child and tell him word for word that he can't be on the phone, don't stand around on the clock, don't lie to me? He has had his share of warnings and if he doesn't know what I expect after 8 yrs will he ever?
 
I am not being a wise [pick a different word] ...but you know the answer!!
At a MINImum you need to have a fierce conversation...
I have been through this....I hada foreman who ran my team and kept increasing his money demands....a mentor told me point blank! This guy is running you and you will never get out in front of him! Learn from your mistake and move on ...it will be painfull ,but once on the other side you will be happy.....he was right !!
what are some choices, options etc? ///think it through but i can almost promise you he WILL not change!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I am not being a wise [pick a different word] ...but you know the answer!!
At a MINImum you need to have a fierce conversation...
I have been through this....I hada foreman who ran my team and kept increasing his money demands....a mentor told me point blank! This guy is running you and you will never get out in front of him! Learn from your mistake and move on ...it will be painfull ,but once on the other side you will be happy.....he was right !!
what are some choices, options etc? ///think it through but i can almost promise you he WILL not change!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, take back your company. Warnings without consequences are just blah blah,blah moments
 
If he is misleading you, is it not reasonable to expect he will/has mislead clients as well?

Who really pays the bills in this biz?

Just two questions I have had to answer from my experience, for what is is worth.

Tony
 
We run very lean in the winter. Myself and two others who have rank over him. He is lazy not bitter. I know the difference.
 
Be sure to be documenting all that has gone on. I had someone like that who after I had all I could take and told him he was done...the next thing I know is he files a work comp claim. Bogus one to top it off, the total looser want to be climber.
 
Every year since he started the laziness starts in? The first year this happened he should've been spoken with (verbal warning). If you noticed this behavior setting in the second year right at that moment he should've been taken aside and the initial conversation revisited. Such as it is, you've acquiesced to this and it's become the accepted norm. As KellyG stated warning without consequences equal nothing.

Let's deal with the here and now; take him aside at the time you are going to lay him off (thus avoiding the potential for a faux fall and WC claim). You may want to go down this line of thought, "For the past 8 yrs you've worked with me I've seen a consistent pattern. (Start with the positive, i.e., his enthusiasm, if any, at the beginning of the year) You start off really strong but by October you seem to be running on empty. While I've talked to you about this before, I feel it just doesn't make a difference and I'm frustrated. I've allowed it to continue in the hopes that you would heed me and change. My not doing anything about this is my mistake. It doesn't help you or me. What do you think is behind this for you?"

Let him tell you what is going on in his head. Ask open-ended questions (not questions that only need a yes or no answer). Listen, actively to his answer and think about what it implies for the business and yourself. Go on to say, you've been doing some thinking on this as well and feel that you need to seriously consider where the company is going in the coming years and how his behavior is going to impact that. You would like him to also take time to consider his future options, where he wants to go in the next few years, what he's willing and able to do to accomplish his goals and what steps he'll be taking to improve his performance. Give him a time frame of say a month or two before the two of you meet to discuss what he's come up with. Let him know in that time you will also be making some decisions on what your expectations will be of him. Let him know you'll be available to answer any questions that may arise during the time prior to the meeting.

I would conclude by telling him that the status quo is not an option and that changes need to be made going into the next season.

After 8 yrs of doing essentially nothing it's not so easy just to dump him. There are the labor laws that govern your jurisdiction that need to be taken into account and whether or not you would owe him any sort of severance or notice, etc... Having kept him for that long I would draw the conclusion that he has some redeeming qualities and that there is a bond that exists (healthy or otherwise). Cutting him loose would, without some sort of dialogue, only leave a bad taste in both your mouths.

Let us know what you do.
 
With the layoff season approaching so soon, I lean towards the fact that you should really be looking at the work comp risk. I would be looking to ride it out until the layoff date. There is not any protection from a layoff. I would make it a clean break and never contact him again. When he calls to ask about getting his job back, just let him know that there is not room for him at this time and you will let him know if something opens up. I am typically a heads on kind of guy, but with an end date already set and no indication that you have a history of documentation with the employee, you will wind up paying unemployment either way. Might as well avoid any additional monetary ties to this employee. With the economy the way it is people are knocking down doors for an opportunity to feed their family. You will have no problem getting a new hire, make sure you are direct with this one on all of your expectations.
 
I had one that habitually scoffed at PPE. To the point where I think it became a game for him..he'd see how far up a tree he could get before I called him on it sometimes and just laugh his fool head off.

Over the course of 2 weeks I took every effort to remind and correct him and I recorded it via phone cam.

When I had incontrovertible evidence that he violated OSHA safety Regs even after being told how to comply we fired him. Happened to be about 3 weeks before annual layoff.

He applied for unemployment and I simply responded the employee was dismissed, "...for failure to adhere to federal and state safety regulations. Do you want to see the videos?"

He was denied unemployment and I was not charged.

I guess the point is that you don't necessarily need a long trail of documentation before you can move in that manner. Also a lot will depend on whether or not you live in an "At Will" state.

Sometimes we just have to suck it up and pay the bill, other times we should challenge it. You may find more headaches in the future if you don't decisively close this particular book.

After we canned this particular guy I changed my employees to per-diem. This allowed me to continue to give them as many hours as I could, still giving the same or better pay and the few bene's we had but most importantly didn't require me to put them on the schedule if they didn't work out. It also didn't hinder me as from a UI perspective if I didn't call them in either.

None of this, of course, is a dodge to get out of UI rather makes things a little more flexible in working with my people.
 
Jason- this is the hardest part of biz. We all struggle with it. The key is consistency and follow through. Those are my 2 biggest weaknesses. The reality is you will never be successful without learning to manage people.
Good luck. Thanks for starting a great discussion!
 
Ryan - you might want to approach a local high school to see if they would like to set up a co-op program with you with one of their interested students. The student will get a credit or two towards graduation in exchange for working with you a specified number of hours. I have done this once, and will do it again. Was worried it would be "babysitting", but it was more like "mentoring", because the student wanted to learn and worked hard.

Also, if you can link up with one or two decent tree guys in your area, it may be possible to sub out their services as schedules permit. This has worked well for me with two longtime friends (competitors) in my area who I occasionally contract climb for. It didn't pan out in a lot of my other short-lived (doomed) tree business relationships, but you develop a sense pretty quick whether someone wants to take you for a ride when they bring nothing to the table.

I currently have a stable of groundies I can call upon when I need help. They have other part-time jobs, so if our schedules mesh; great. Otherwise, it is just a matter of making another phone call or two, or re-scheduling a job here and there.
 
Lots of great advice here from all. Thank you! Still going through the best way to handle this. I wanted to see how the long weekend affected things after the holiday. He Seemed collected and energized.
We run a smaller company and even with the endless frustration from my employees I care for everyone like part of my extended family. Working together with all of them on a regular basis makes that unavoidable for me.
I have a good plan in my head I'm just fine tuning to take care of this. When the dust settles Ill make sure I give a full report!
Jason
 

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