easy to use GRCS

I have been using a Hobbs since 89,. It is an excellent tool with many miles of rope gone through it. We recently purchased a GRCS. I can not see a difference in toughness. The GRCS does have more moving parts and from my research none out there have broken. The only damage to the winch is when people hit it with the wood being slam dunked low to the ground. The biggest advantage of the GRCS is the one man operation. To gain the same lift with a Hobbs it would require 3 men. Our hobbs works as well today as it did 13 years ago. Is one better than the other,well they both have their place here and they both still go out.
 
Frans,

Congrats on finding the right woman for you!

I was dropping an Ash once that had been topped before I moved into my house. It was also within a few inches of the drive and foundation. My brother happened to be coming by and showed up right about when I had the brush on the ground and was about to drop the trunk, so I put him on the rope to make sure it went into the brush pile instead of onto the roof. Everything went fine, with a satisfying "boom" when the wood hit the pavement. With a huge smile, I looked at him and said "You gotta love it!" He looked at me blankly and replied, "I guess you do."

Good for us, I guess, that this work ain't for everyone.

Keith
 
LW, my main lowering line for canopy work is a 5/8" line. I also use a 3/4" line as well. I use these with my GRCS. The only reason that there is a maximum line dia. suggested is for the self-tailer (as far as I know). You can still get 4 good wraps with a 3/4" line. I also use the winch for some of my wood lowering. I do swap the bolloard in when huge pieces are going to be lowered though.

One other thought, my take is that the length of the crank handle has been carefully chosen so as to not over load the gears. I also was told that a friend broke his Hobbs by adding another bar length for better lifting.
 
OK, I have used both winches to failure. To the point where you can't crank up the log at all. Either not enough strength in the device, or rope slips on the spool because of overloading. These problems are not device specific. What I can tell you is that the GRCS is lighter, easier to use and safer than the Hobbs. With the GRCS there is only the need for one man to work the device. The winch and rope brake are easily interchangable. How many of you have seen the Hobbs rope brake? It is a completely seperate tool. Not just a simple attachment. I have done thousands of tree removals with both devices. When it comes to comfort and safety I know what I'm talking about. Put it this way. I was the first climber in CA to work with one of these. When I called Bailey's to purchase one of my own they told me all about how they tried it out and took pictures for their catalog. I had to stop him mid speech and say "Don't sell it, ship it". After all I had been working with the device already for a few years. I am very happy with my GRCS, and have never once wished that I had anything different. As far as strength goes, what does it matter even if the Hobbs is stronger there is no tree I can't work down faster and safer than with the GRCS. And I'm not convinced that it is.
Matt
 
The bollard is there to reduce wear on the winch and the rope too, since the Harken winch drum is textured a bit. I use the boolard now and then when the pieces get real bigh, but I like the slack tending that the wich gives. As the chunk separates, I'll suck it up so that the load is caught closer to the block.

As many have said, one man operation on the ground is the biggest reason to have a GRCS. Some times with real big pulls a second man is needed on the The Winch to assist with tensioning the line on the drum, but very seldom.

It is easier for t pwople to set up the winch, but not always nessesary. IF I can flip the truck strap around the trunk, I can set it up solo.

Not stout enough? What is the SWL of your rope? Who slams chunks weighing near the tensil of the line? If I remember the articles that Blair did with big wood on the Hobbs, he did it using load transfer and 2 devices.

Greg Good has told me of breaking 5/8 line, but not The Winch. I think i remember him saying he has tested it over 2000# of impact loading. I'm pretty sure I've exceeded that.

How can you get a Dynomometer onto the crank? Someone should test the different winches in a feild like situation so see what input and output are. Tension the line with a dyno on the rigging line and then one on the handle for a straight downward pull?

IM(not so)HO the GRCS is to the Hobbs as the Hobs is to a Porty. It is easier to use, easier to mount, easier to carry and the durablity issue is a red herring.

Joe, if I'm ever in the area again, we will have to try to work something out for using The Winch with you and your people.
 
Hi there treejack
Wild Bill here from wet Wales in the U.K.
Don't write the Hobbs off yet, have used the Hobbs for the last 10 years and am now also using the GRCS. Both great bits of kit and both with their place in treework.

How the hell are you topping out only using 5/8th, you know for every foot of fall the weight of the piece is added again!!!!
10 foot of fall on a 500lb piece= 5500 lbs!!! where is your safety factor????
I hope you aren't using this 5/8th too regularly!!

Keep climbing all
 
That is only if the load is cought with the rope, not allowing the friction break to slow it down first. Sometime you gotta do that though.

I assume a factor of 4 on allomst any rigging job done, so I assume the 400# peice willbe putting 2000# on any slam dunk, whish is whay I lobe thhe slack tending ablility on the winch. Suck the not right up into the pully as the piece comes and the fall is the twice the distance of the sling/block combo.
 
Regarding what "still has a place in treework":
Some time ago I was working on a big cedar. I had already gone down (but there was still one climber up) when I decided to remove 3 lower limbs. They weren't small at all but I was in no mood to install a block and a friction device (the trunk had a 12 feet circunference), so I passed a 5/8 Double Esterlon to the climber up the tree that passed it over a higher limb before tying in the branch. I told him we would do it the "old way" and I just made a wrap around the trunk. In less than 10 minutes all tree branches were removed without any problem. The bark was thick enough not to be damaged and the rope also looked fine. That was the first time I ever did that and I'm not saying that it's the best way to do it, but it made me realize that even "tree wraps" still have a place in treework.

Sergio
 
I love low friction rigging, but there is a place for the old fashion way too. Many a time I still will lace the rope through several branches/stubs so I can self rig small to moderate limbs out. Friction can be a good tool if all you are doing is lowering limbs.

With The Winvh I have picked tall thin trees up from adjacent trees without setting a block because climbing or setting a retrievable would not be worth the time.
 
Hi Snarf,

A 20,000 Pound trunk? Could this have been a simple typo?

What ever happened to the 4:1, 5:1 or 10:1 SWL ratios? At a minimum a 20K trunk would require an 80K tensile line and even higher rated pulleys and slings!

Even a harken winch, as expensive as they are, are not rated anywhere near 20,000.

Sailing capstans are not really designed for shock loading. Steady and Surging loading, yes as gusts of wind are common.

But the idea of going from 0 to thousands of pounds in a split second on the capstan is not in the general plan for a sailboat.

To consider using the Harken as a shock loading bollard is asking for catasrophe. Perhaps that is why a bollard specifically designed for the GCRS is available?
 
just got my grcs, used it to remove an aproximately 8 foot diameter pecan with a rotten split down the middle of it, and each of the 4 large leaders were over two houses a fence and a full propane tank. two crane companies turned it down, so we removed it with just the grcs. it helped a lot although I need to buy more blocks pulleys and slings because I need much stronger newer and more reliable ones, do you guys prefer whoopies slings eye to eye slings or a tenex rope with single eye for block or pulley
 
Hey Wild Bill. Can you, or someone else tell me the exact tensile strength of 5/8 double braid? I think the rope was made by Samson. I think I'd be more worried about the crotch ripping out of the tree before my rope breaking. I think the heaviest chunk I've ever false crotched out of a tree was in the neighborhood of 1,200 lbs. Usually go as heavy as six or seven hundred lbs. to make it easier on the ground crew to move around. I never put a load line in the crotch of a tree if I care at all about using it again. I've ruined more than my share of load lines by burning them up in my early years. Same goes for taking wraps.
Matt
 
Oh, forgot to mention that I just finished a fifty foot leaning Monterey pine removal with one employee. Total time on the job was about fourteen hours which included taking out a thirty foot Bailey Acacia, and pruning a small Pittosporum back slightly from the residence. Did I mention that it was about fifteen feet down a steep bank as well? I'll try to post pics later if I can get my wife to help me. I'm such a technophobe!
Matt
 
If it is Stable Braid the Av. strength is 16,300 and the minimum is 13,900.

I would agree with tod_k that whoopies are not ideal for in tree use. My vote is for loopies and and eye slings.
 
Rick Wood
I have read your various posts over time with enjoyment and have learned alot from them.
Judging from what i know about you I can only think you have slipped a little in your thinking. Had a few beers?
What I am referring to is your post where you roll out the ratings for the GRCS.
The ratings are correct but you have tottally missed the point. Greg Good was not lowering #20,000 lbs as business as usual, he did it as a test to try and break the device.
Prehaps I was unclear? Wernt we talking about the overall durability?
Of course the amount of weight that Greg Good let fall into his rigging can be best answered by Greg himself.
His e-mail is on every ad he places; TCI magezine, etc,etc.
Frans
 
Even a harken winch, as expensive as they are, are not rated anywhere near 20,000.

Sailing capstans are not really designed for shock loading. Steady and Surging loading, yes as gusts of wind are common.

But the idea of going from 0 to thousands of pounds in a split second on the capstan is not in the general plan for a sailboat.

----------------------
I beg to differ on these points. A few years back at TCI in Milwalkee. We went to the Harken factory (Man was it cool!!). A friend and I stuck around after and it was pointed out by one of the employees that when the boom swings from one side to the other of a large boat and catches the wind (tack, gybe ... I don't know the proper term) there is a shock loading in the 10's of thousands of pounds.

Dave
 
Hi Snarf,

I re-read your earlier post--You're right it wasn't clear that you were referring to testing phase and loads so I missed the point.

However, I still question of the tensile strength requirements of everything involved. Perhaps Joe Hash (are you still out there Joe?) can shed some light on the subject.

I especially question the figure of 20000 pounds. That is 10 tons perhaps not a lot in the grand scheme of things but still abolutely HUGE in terms of wood.

If you drop 20000 pounds using a false crotch pulley like we all do then your weights are multiplied at the false crotch and sling...does this not exceed the generally accepted SWL ratios on the rigging hardware?

Also, I have no idea what type of wood he was lowering but using green wood weight tables these are the size logs that would have been used to get 20000:

Shagbark Hickory: 16' lng by 72" diam
White Oak: 16' long x 72" diameter
Black Walnut 20' long x 56" diameter

Now in all fairness I don't have data for some of the western species of trees or Eucs.

Lets illustrate 20000 a little more. A typical 1/2 ton pickup truck weighs in at somewhere between 6000 and 9000 pounds. Given the 20000 pound figure in the "testing" it would be like dropping a pair of Pickup trucks and shock loading a Harken Winch with them.

I'm sure the harkens are tough and strong -- but 20000 seems higher than can be believed.
 
When I am dropping wood into a block it is safe to say that I exceed the SWL often. Yes I know the loads of the wood the tensile of the rope. In order to stay in the SWL I would be using a very large rope. I just keep a rough idea of the abuse to the rope and use it accordingly remembering the cycles to failure policy.
 
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