DYNAMIC tree support systems

lumberjackson

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Location
Portland, OR
When is somebody going to come out with a fall arrest solution for tree parts with defects? I just looked at a tree that had a codominant stem split out and was thinking about mitigation options for the remaining top. It's an 8 or 9 inch top with some decay about 80 feet up and will probably hit the neighbor's house when it fails. I think a fall arrest system that can work like a negative rigging system would be awesome. But probably not realistic...

Other than that and "reducing" (the physiological equivalent of topping in this case) the remaining top, I can't come up with any good mitigation options for the owner. Thoughts or other options I could consider?
 
I think the Cobra dynamic system is meant to catch and hold limbs/leaders that fail. I suppose you could install a vertical cable where it attaches above and below the decay. Never thought of that.
 
I think the Cobra dynamic system is meant to catch and hold limbs/leaders that fail. I suppose you could install a vertical cable where it attaches above and below the decay. Never thought of that.

Right, but they are only intended for a fall factor that is very close to zero, meaning that the cable is already supporting some of the limb's weight, and when the limb fails, it doesn't really fall, the cable just ends up supporting all of the weight. In my case, the top would have a fall factor of two which would cause some serious shock loading.


Total removal. Plant a new tree. Why waste time trying to mitigate damage from a tree in that condition?
Because:
1) a 5 year old tree can't provide the benefits that an 80 year old tree can
b) That's what the customer wants
iii) I'm not asking if this tree "should" be removed, I'm trying to have a discussion about creative and effective mitigation options
IV) I can make more money mitigating the hazard this year and then removing the tree in 10 years when a different defect that can't be mitigated increases the tree's risk.
 
Right, but they are only intended for a fall factor that is very close to zero, meaning that the cable is already supporting some of the limb's weight, and when the limb fails, it doesn't really fall, the cable just ends up supporting all of the weight. In my case, the top would have a fall factor of two which would cause some serious shock loading.



Because:
1) a 5 year old tree can't provide the benefits that an 80 year old tree can
b) That's what the customer wants
iii) I'm not asking if this tree "should" be removed, I'm trying to have a discussion about creative and effective mitigation options
IV) I can make more money mitigating the hazard this year and then removing the tree in 10 years when a different defect that can't be mitigated increases the tree's risk.
V) Because it's the owners/tree managers tree, and the decision to retain or remove ultimately rests with them. If an arborist is acting in an advisory capacity, then they cannot ethically put their thumb on the scales. Making recommendations makes you an advocate, rather than an expert consultant.

When a consultation client asks for a recommendation, an ethical consultant can translate that to mean that the client still doesn't have enough information to comfortably make an informed decision. The consultant can then try to find out what information or clarity they're missing, and add that to what information has already been provided. After being fully and objectively advised of the condition and risks embodied in the tree, should the tree owner/manager wish to retain the tree and take steps to mitigate risks related to structural issues, then that's what should be delivered to them.

If the arborist is not confident of their ability to competently deliver what the client asks for, then it's time to suggest a referral to a provider who has that skill set squarely in their wheelhouse, or to decline the assignment.

A quick knee-jerk recommendation to remove/replace as the only option, is not ethical consulting. Unless the tree presents in imminent risk of failure with serious consequences to high value targets which cannot be moved, there are always other options, depending upon how the client feels about the tree, and how much they're willing to invest to keep it. For an example, do an internet search for the Anne Frank Horse Chestnut Tree Ganoderma Mitigation in Amsterdam. I often use this tree as an example to put options into perspective for clients when discussing mitigation techniques, with removal at one end of the spectrum and Anne Frank style tree mitigation at the other.

From what I've read of their posts and replies in this thread,I think the OP is doing a good job of staying in their lane as a consultant.
 
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You could make something like this in this case, imagine a series of half (or marlin) hitches. Though you have to make sure they dont slip down all together because they might not hold themselves in place magically as the picture suggests...
 

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When is somebody going to come out with a fall arrest solution for tree parts with defects? I just looked at a tree that had a codominant stem split out and was thinking about mitigation options for the remaining top. It's an 8 or 9 inch top with some decay about 80 feet up and will probably hit the neighbor's house when it fails. I think a fall arrest system that can work like a negative rigging system would be awesome. But probably not realistic...

Other than that and "reducing" (the physiological equivalent of topping in this case) the remaining top, I can't come up with any good mitigation options for the owner. Thoughts or other options I could consider?
I have seen credible BMCA consulting arborists suggest half hitching lengths of cobra along the limb lengths every few feet (4'?)
I think this is spec'd in other parts of the world, but is not in our standards. Perhaps this is why Cobra states "not to be installed to support a defective tree part" or some such. I think they don't want to take the liability on from US lawyers...
 
Fascinating! I've never heard of that being recommended or suggested! But I think it could have a place in certain situations.
Agreed, but cabling systems for catching IF a failure occurs is a tricky thing. Imagine a 50’ codom Doug fir, failure occurs and the lead is successfully caught. Cool beans but that would be one tricky removal and quite the bear trap
 
Saw this on Facebook today. Totally different approach than cabling. Obviously the execution in this instance isn't ideal, but I wonder if the concept could be useful in certain situations...
Screenshot_20230326-133714.png
 
I’ve zip tied support props and spreaders in various locations of trees to aid in training them.
Have a native hawthorn that where the leader kept flopping took a thin stick I found and tied it to the leader for some extra support.
 
Something I always tell people is "We live in the woods here, there is no zero-risk tree around your house and if you require that, go live in the middle of a field." From that point, it just comes down to risk tolerance and everyone has a different line.

I do very little cabling, when I do it is usually co-dom tops on firs or cedars, and I always consider what would happen if the supported portion failed. It would likely make a scary hanging mess assuming the support system didn't break as well, but at least when I'm looking at a co-dom top or whatever, it's still safer than the top breaking out and spearing through the bedroom, right? I've seen cabled pieces fail and hang, and seen them fail and break the cable. There are just too many variables to predict that I see no way a manufacturer would ever want to dive into that mess.
 
Something I always tell people is "We live in the woods here, there is no zero-risk tree around your house and if you require that, go live in the middle of a field." From that point, it just comes down to risk tolerance and everyone has a different line.

I do very little cabling, when I do it is usually co-dom tops on firs or cedars, and I always consider what would happen if the supported portion failed. It would likely make a scary hanging mess assuming the support system didn't break as well, but at least when I'm looking at a co-dom top or whatever, it's still safer than the top breaking out and spearing through the bedroom, right? I've seen cabled pieces fail and hang, and seen them fail and break the cable. There are just too many variables to predict that I see no way a manufacturer would ever want to dive into that mess.
Well said. I usually sum up discussions about risk and tree failure with clients with, at the end of the day, anything is liable to happen. In our industry, Murphy’s Law rules. There’s a reason they call it, “an Act of God.” Que sera, sera. Sometimes, you can do everything within your power to save a tree or mitigate risk, and something still happens.
 
Something I always tell people is "We live in the woods here, there is no zero-risk tree around your house and if you require that, go live in the middle of a field." From that point, it just comes down to risk tolerance and everyone has a different line.

I do very little cabling, when I do it is usually co-dom tops on firs or cedars, and I always consider what would happen if the supported portion failed. It would likely make a scary hanging mess assuming the support system didn't break as well, but at least when I'm looking at a co-dom top or whatever, it's still safer than the top breaking out and spearing through the bedroom, right? I've seen cabled pieces fail and hang, and seen them fail and break the cable. There are just too many variables to predict that I see no way a manufacturer would ever want to dive into that mess.
Just to add to your anxiety, I’ve seen cabled conifer co-doms fail just below the union. The aftermath looked as if the union held busting apart on impact.
 

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