Dragging brush - climber

[hl_tree]

Do you guys feel that dragging brush is a right of passage to becoming a climber? Almost every climber I have ever met started out dragging brush for SOMEBODY. What are your thoughts on the subject?

 

[Colin]

Every situation is unique, but I would imagine every climber starts as a groundie. That being said, my first week I was flying a bucket and making my first climb. And I feed a chipper.

 

[frans]

I started out dragging brush and the climbers NEVER let me climb. So during lunch time one day when these climbers were off having a great lunch and laughing it up while I was left to finish dragging brush I jumped up in the tree. When they got back the job was just about finished.
Not the ideal way to learn to climb but I worked for some pretty hard core dog-eat-dog kinda folks back then. Me climbing meant some climber would get fired because as a new climber I got less money. Our boss believed in "may the best man win" theory. Kind of a rough upbringing for a new climber.

I still believe that dragging the brush is an essential way to learn the ropes. How else will you learn to fuel saws (and start them), tie knots, work ropes, feed the chipper, cut limb wood under tension, etc, etc, all in the demanding, results oriented setting, that on the job training gives you?
In other words I will pick a person with on the job training over someone from a school.

Unless they are some kind of wonder person.
Frans

 

[treebear]

No climber will ever work with us unless he both can and will drag brush and do every other low prestige job. The last thing I need is snobby climbers who wont do groundie work. Then again, any new man interested in learning to climb should be taken well care of and trained the best way possible. Good teams dont have high and low class workers, they have workers.
svein
www.hogstogrydding.no

 

[speelyei]

Straight up, treebear. The one downside to comps and classes and certifications is that it can breed a tree-god attitude. As nifty as all your hardware is, as cool as your footlock technique is, this is a business and you are a worker. Whether piecing down a tree, running a blower, hauling wood from the backyard to the truck, or raking up debris, I would take a hard worker who understands the job over some prima-dona any day.

I would go on to say that if you haven't logged so much time dragging brush that you thought about quitting, you don't deserve to be in the tree. A person who has done their time on the ground learns the pace, approach, what to do, what not to do, and how to conduct themselves. They also learn respect. Respect for the others they work with, and for those that taught them, and for the trade.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Prima dona climbers need not apply.

Everyone is capable of dragging brush and raking. When the climbing is done, everyone chips in to get the job finished.

When I've hired people who claim to be able to climb they stay on the ground for a couple of days at least. That gives me time to observe them working with the rest of the crew. Do they watch out for the details of the job? Are they someone who is going to drop a limb on top of a groundie? Do they take care of the equipment? How do they organize the flow of the job.

Anyone who can manage the flow of the job on the ground can manage the flow once they get into the third dimension. Sloppy groundies make sloppy climbers.

We're negotiating with Masterblaster Butch to get his excellent article on what makes a good groundie up in the Articles.

 

[glens]

Negotiating?

I've got printable PDFs in various forms, one of which is to print two pages side-by-side on a sheet of paper, printing alternate sheet-sides. You then reload the stack into the printer and print the other side, then fold and staple if you wish. I've also got an HTML version of it for Web presentation which matches the PDF format/layout, and which is easier to follow and find points in than the outdated HTML version Butch keeps on his website. For some reason he seems reluctant to use the matching HTML version instead, which I've made available to him several times now. Butch?

Glen

 

[TreeCo]

That is a good doc. Glen I saved your work on the doc if you ever need a backup. The guys at AS worked hard on that doc. Butch and Glen did a great job of putting it all together.

Dan

 

[treebear]

The main thing is to get the work done but sometimes it seems that the climbing is the main part and the pruning and stuff is a dull necessety. Climbing is just a way to get the job done safe and efficiently and be limited to that. Not saying that good climbing skills is not a good thing but overfocusing on climbing can make groundwork look second rate and conflicts in the team and things slow down as crew hazzle and argue.
Svein
www.hogstogrydding.no

 

[Riggs]

Climbers should get paid more and ground men should deal with it !
To call a tree climber a " prima donna" because he doesn't help drag brush is a bunch of horse sh*t ! Get off your soap box . If everyone could do it , than do it !

 

[Mangoes]

I'm not going to argue one point or another, but to add a perspective. I have this really bad habit of working by myself almost all the time. So I provide the client with the service and skill required to climb and safely prune/remove their tree. Then, I come down and also do a great clean up, ensuring that it is done in a manner that gives the client the impression that I was hardly even there. The tasks go hand in hand, the difference is whether or not some one is dedicated to each task. I used to work for a company that didn't have a person employed that didn't know how to climb. Note there were varying levels of skill, but everyone knew what was going on and had and easy time relating to the tasks that each person had to do on the job at hand. It made for a very dedicated team environment.

 

[klimbinfool]

A year ago I sat down with my crew on a safety day and made up a list for Ground Crew,and Trimmers I will have to bring a copy and compare notes. Since the cities version is very generic, we spent all day going over what we felt was the most important details for these jobs

I must say and I have always believed this, that the ground crew has every bit as much reposibility as the climber.Although , it may seem a dreary job at times, I feel thier reponsibilities double over mine sometimes as a climber or bucket operator, especially when working out in the streets as we do 99 percent of the time.I try to thank them every day for the job they have done.

So, it's not just about dragging brush, its everything they do as a groundperson. Thanking them for thier hard work, making them understand how important thier job really is by keeping the work zone safe while we do our job in the tree is very important. It keeps the moral up and makes them feel worthy. This iliminates alot of conflict (why does he get to climb all the time, thats the easy job)....lol...yeah right. However, that is true sometimes.

My answer to the question, "IS dragging brush a pre req." You bet it is. Because it intails much more then just dragging brush.

As Tom mentioned, a sloppy ground persons makes a sloppy climber. The climber is only as good as the groundi and vise versa.

Thanks
Greg

 

[chad]

it doesnt really matter to me. id rather not drag brush, but when i run crews im mostly on the ground anyway trying to orchestrate the job properly. if i get time i climb and someone else can drag. i just found it harder to be a great foreman teaching my crew and answering the clients questions when im up in a tree. groundies got the hardest job in the business anyway, every climber knows it. thats why you start climbing...so you dont have to drag brush.