Double-headed X-Ring splice

[theatertech87]

I suppose with some baller throwline skills you could remote set the long sling too. Lol I can dream of being that good sometime... In 10 years lmao

You could also make some custom version of a double snapper it other retrieval link that works with 5/8 splices as an add-on if you want (though to be honest retrieval with a throwline tied to the sling and over a branch might be easier/better)

As a thought experiment, is your long sling splitting a 2:1 mechanical advantage between anchor points that would be only 1:1 with separate slings? I honestly don't know

 

[eyehearttrees]

I suppose with some baller throwline skills you could remote set the long sling too. Lol I can dream of being that good sometime... In 10 years lmao

Well....are you actively practicing (now) towards that? LOL I have same dream and am "still meaning to get on with practicing" right now...g'damn it I just put my throwing kit by my door I am going to figure out a practice regimen today!! The last job I did had me setting backup/safety lines for the rigging from two separate adjacent trees, one definitely could've been thrown-up if I had the skill!

You could also make some custom version of a double snapper it other retrieval link that works with 5/8 splices as an add-on if you want (though to be honest retrieval with a throwline tied to the sling and over a branch might be easier/better)

What's a double snapper? And it's not just the 5/8 soft-spliced eye, the Lrg rings don't even pass my spliced 1/2" polydyne (it does have a thimble in the eye but it's that $0.50 "lo-wall" thimble you'd use for tight-eyes on climbing lines, like literally smallest thing possible actually this is it:


Drives me nuts I'd never buy another "Large" ring (only had my pair because they're included w/ the 3-ringed x-sling), I feel like it'd be better suited for climbing-anchor hardware TBH but will say they give notably more friction than the XL's, I have to imagine it's a surface-area thing almost entirely but, full disclosure, my XL's are all 'slick anodized' and the pair of larges is the "matte/satin anodized", am uncertain if the different sheens make a difference and could see them making some difference just unsure how significant..

The long 'snake sling' 10 footer could be ground-set with the right tricks (and still eager to be able to do it, ability-wise) but in-practice I find that setting it really needs 'hands on' because often it's something where you're draping it over a pair of forks/unions and they're, say, 5' away from each other which means you have to 'wrap' each tail around its fork a couple times so you don't have long drooping legs (further the ring strays from the crotch, the less you're keeping things in-compression!) Will be focusing on remote-set of climbing gear to start with, am actually excited to get-on with it since I know that proficiency to, say, 35', isn't that lofty a goal yet 35' would let me do like 90% of what I need

Re thread-title, here's my newest splice (and 1st time doing one of these), used that bastard pair of Lrg rings, some 5/8 T-Rex (never tried it before, stuff is waxy!!) to make my 1st Ultra, I used Poplar's method IE no brummels on the legs, although I changed a couple things:
- used a 10" "center" so I'd have 5" legs to each ring (instead of 6"+ as he was talking about...I've since found pics of even shorter ones & wish I did 3.5" or 4" legs)
- for the tail, I did a slightly longer "first bury" and then a much shorter "end/butt splice", thing hardly went back into the rope (thank god for lock-stitching )
- First pocket was ~10" long (sling can choke a 6" spar"), then 5.5 or 6" pockets the rest of the 7' body

Messed up on the last pocket's beginning brummels (only made 2), honestly don't think it warrants re-doing it but would like others' thoughts (god forbidding it failed, the new 'eye'/soft-shackle for my hardware would just be 6" away, and it's the final-splice so 3 brummels and a bury)

 

[eyehearttrees]

These ^ "ring holds the hardware's leg of the sling" setups always intrigued me but I've yet to see an actual way of making them, can anyone elaborate? Surely those ^ aren't made in a way where it's just a whoopie with the XL ring floating on the sling and, once you've thrown the adjustable eye around the tree, you then 'thread' the XL with it? Obviously that would be pretty insecure (it's how they're pictured there^, with the XL's contact from the sling only touching 50% of the XL's sling-grooving!)

 

[theatertech87]

As for actively practicing my throwline skills, not on the regular, but i still use one where appropriate and "struggle teach" myself to be better

Double Snapper

awesome idea, but not something i find myself using hardly ever, probably because any time I'm over a hard surface I've got a bucket to set/retrieve things with

as to the instagram photo, text isn't gonna convey this well, BUT

the choked ring looks like it's slid onto the sling before the splices are finished trapping it there (for convenience so it doesn't fall off) and then what would normally be an eye splice onto the ring is just a friction fit when it's wrapped around the tree and adjusted to be reasonably tight before loading. in this use case it looks like it mainly serves to reduce rope on rope contact and wear. Is it necessary, no, does it look pretty and likely serve it's purpose? yes

 

[Benjo75]

I'm going to make a couple of these. I've been reading through this post. I know how ro make one but is there a recommended way? There seems to be a few different ways of going about it. I was going to make the double ring end as is shown in the video. The other end with the single ring will be just a straight bury and stitched. Would you overlap the tapered bury so the Tenex is the same diameter for the entire length? Or just do a regular taper and possibly have a section that is smaller than the rest?

 

[theatertech87]

If I was going for a short doing in the 2-4 foot length I would overlap the tapes so it's the same diameter, anything longer I wouldn't bother

 

[Benjo75]

Yeah I was thinking about 5 ft. I've seen some that are all straight bury. I've seen some that had brummels at each ring and at the fork. Any opinions?

 

[theatertech87]

Never used a double header so I'm bout sure if there is any preference difference, but in single eyes it hasn't made much difference either way

 

[eyehearttrees]

I'm going to make a couple of these. I've been reading through this post. I know how ro make one but is there a recommended way? There seems to be a few different ways of going about it. I was going to make the double ring end as is shown in the video. The other end with the single ring will be just a straight bury and stitched. Would you overlap the tapered bury so the Tenex is the same diameter for the entire length? Or just do a regular taper and possibly have a section that is smaller than the rest?

Yeah I was thinking about 5 ft. I've seen some that are all straight bury. I've seen some that had brummels at each ring and at the fork. Any opinions?

Couple of things:

- "make a couple" of these? These are not versatile slings! Cannot urge you enough to plan out your ideal sling setup (instead of just getting some here&there), it'll make things easier & cheaper, if you make a couple of these you still cannot hitch any of them to a spar, you still cannot use them on crotches that are too large, etc...

- a 5' or 6' sling is useful, I had the one you pictured (but mine was TEC, same difference) and found it very useful but it has its limitations...I would certainly want each of the following first: a long eye&eye (at least 8' long), and something that can go on spars (deadeye, whoopie, ultra etc....honestly I feel like all kits need a dead-eye sling, it's just the most versatile, I keep my favorite hardware(Safebloc) on my only deadeye, a ~15' section of TEC

- double-heading is cool, but I would NEVER purposefully get & use the Lrg x-rings, they are ill-suited IMO (they cannot pass spliced 5/8 rope...), I'd much rather have a single XL on the end of the sling than a pair of Lrg rings (and would prefer a pair of XL's, naturally!)

- not brummelling the rings is fine, their strength comes from the brummels holding the two legs of rope together above the rings' legs, when you're at the following step you can see how squishing-down the outer rope actually lets you start your brummelling lower/closer to the rings, this is good (may seem counterintuitive, since usually we want the outer rope tight over the buried rope, but in this configuration we are not looking for/getting the "finger trap effect" of a bury, the bury is merely the form needed to lace the rings, they're held by the brummels that lock the two legs' ropes

^see how I milked/squished-down the outers here? I ended up bringing them back up a lil, but actually wish I'd left them that low because it'd have let me form a tighter brummelling (and thus have tighter retention of the rings, if lateral forces ever came into play)
Note: the video for double-heads (by Poplar, who also has a good vid on Ultraslings-in-general) describes it as "Find the center 1' of rope, then measure 6" outward for each ring", giving you 6" legs. I "found my center" and measured-outwards 5" in each direction (getting a 10" center), so I have 5" legs, wish I'd done 3.5" legs lol, but think it's easier to look at it like "Find the center of the rope, and from there make your markings" Will attach a pic below to show very short legs, the point here is to have less slop/slack when the sling is set on a tree

(Oh btw when I took apart hte sling you pictured, it was as expected IE they simply buried the tails to the centers like you'd do with any "eye&eye" splice, Samson's guide for hitch cords - used it last night for an ice tail hitch actually - do a good job showing this type of mid-sling crossover: https://samsonrope.com/docs/default...c1_eye_and_eye_tail_web.pdf?sfvrsn=1e0022aa_2

Good luck!!! Oh and if you're going from scratch, as I'd recommend for sure, check out Elevation Canada their rings are 10% wider (their XL's at least) and are like $90 for a pair (shipped), there's also the new Rhoma rings, they're not as fat but you can get their XL's for just $35 (!) and the sling groove is very deep, if splicing yourself (which is child's play with 12S in 5/8"+ sizes) then you can really get a ton for your money!!

pic of the double-headed ultrasling I saw after making mine, made me wish I'd shortened the legs even more (and wish I could braid TEC so that I could do brummels to both ends, brummels are simple when it's 1 end getting it but if both ends are to have hardware you have to un-braid the rope to make the brummel on the 2nd end :/

I also would've pushed the outer rope down further when at the step I pictured earlier, so that I could begin the brummelling a couple/few crowns lower on the rope!
[hard to tell from the pic but sometimes brummelling isn't done right IE one end is just repeatedly passed-through the other end, it's a 'cheat' and could probably be used on the rings' legs in ^ this type of sling because it's the brummelling above there that is the strength member, you certainly wouldn't make an Ultrasling's pocket with such a weave-pattern though!]

 

[eyehearttrees]

If I was going for a short doing in the 2-4 foot length I would overlap the tapes so it's the same diameter, anything longer I wouldn't bother

My "threshold" is around 5', if going longer I wouldn't bother filling the whole rope unless I had the cordage to do so, it's not just "it looks good w/o that thin spot" but, when pushing a splice to failure, a main failing-point is the spot in the rope where the buried-tail ends (at least if it's an abrupt ending), because of the change/deformity in the outer rope as its diameter changes based on the buried tail inside of it....so my thinking is that you're gonna have the strongest sling, regardless of length even 10' slings, by following the "Samson Eye&Eye" instructions I posted earlier, where your buried tails are brought to the center of the sling and pass each other for a few inches, their tapers done proper so the resultant rope body feels consistent through its center.
(in-practice i'd love tips on how to achieve this better though....last night when making an Ice Tail e2e in this manner, I found the sling too-short to get enough milking to bring my second tail as deep through the sling as I'd hoped....was aiming for a 30", ended up at 31", was under the impression I could go as low as 28" w/o problems..)

 

[Benjo75]

I mainly use Safeblocs for the majority of my rigging. I need a short ring to ring for remotely setting and retrieving. I've already made one but wanted to make one with 2 XL rings and a beast ring on the other end. I have plenty of slings, blocks and rings so this will be an xtra for use when needed.

Got this far last night. Now for the beast ring on the other end.

 

[eyehearttrees]

I mainly use Safeblocs for the majority of my rigging. I need a short ring to ring for remotely setting and retrieving. I've already made one but wanted to make one with 2 XL rings and a beast ring on the other end. I have plenty of slings, blocks and rings so this will be an xtra for use when needed.

Got this far last night. Now for the beast ring on the other end.

So cool to hear (actually think IIRC I knew you did, hard remembering usernames & past threads sometimes ), I truly believe that a vast majority of non-users would make it a routine part of their setups if they'd only try it (what size bullrope do you use? Original Bloc was larger, holes were shrunk a lil for more friction....I use 1/2 and 5/8, but I default to my 5/8 primarily because of how much more friction my Bloc & rings exert upon it)

Well done on the new one BTW, those #2 ('Lrg', not XL ) All Gears look pretty big for #2/Lrg (what should be called Medium by all rights, but hey I'm not marketing them ) How long will you make it? As someone who used to default to the premade 6' "3 ringed 3/4 x-sling" they make, but now loves a 10' rig&ring FAR better, I'd urge you to make the body of that cord as long as possible!!! Longer = more versatility, and just a lil more weight....totally worth it! It's not like making it 10' impedes you from using it on smaller branches or crotches you'd just wrap it around a few times to take-up the extra length, just gotta put that out there (mine's XL's on each end, but I'd say a pair of #2/Lrg is equivalent to a single XL, they're technically wider but the bending surface isn't as proper so I consider them equal enough...Can't wait til rings come down in price some more, Rhoma's XL's are $35 shipped that's cheapest I know of right now, but want to get another pair so I can do a double-double-header, a 10 or ~12' sling with a pair of XL on each end, allowing me that "2 anchor points from 1 sling" effect mine gives, but with each point being double-XL IE capable of being a terminal point, when I use mine in spread position it's only for redirects or medium rigging at most)

Where do you order your cordage? I use Gap for smaller orders (though they recently put a threshold for free s&h so expecting that will change to my fave, Wesspur ), they recently had black 5/8 TEC but was sold out before I got it....sounds silly but, if the #'s (ABS) on it are the same, I'd probably pay a 10% premium for coloration/patterning I preferred

 

[Benjo75]

Well done on the new one BTW, those #2 ('Lrg', not XL ) All Gears look pretty big for #2/Lrg (what should be called Medium by all rights, but hey I'm not marketing them )

Mine are not X Large? They're 28mm x 38mm. That shows to be X Large. They're the same size as an X Rigging Ring X Large. However they might be a few thousandths narrower on the outside.

 

[eyehearttrees]

Mine are not X Large? They're 28mm x 38mm. That shows to be X Large. They're the same size as an X Rigging Ring X Large. However they might be a few thousandths narrower on the outside.

[[crap I meant to add--- if that's 5/8, which it looks to be, then why 3-ring it anyways? The rope is the weak factor, anything the 5/8 tec can take it can take on 2 rings I would bet....I wish the specific data were available, everyone goes by "you need 3" or "you need >1" to "do terminal anchoring" but it's all so relative]]


Re mixing up sizing that's my bad!! It's because you'd spoken in just X-Ring brand's terminology ('I did the XL's, now for the Beast') so I figured you were making a typical 3-ringer (2 LRG/#2's, 1 XL/#3), I did think the ring looked big for a Lrg and almost looked at the sizing of All Gear rings since all rings are a bit off (my Elevation Canada is 10% fatter, I actually held my hand up - in the position yours was relative to the ring - and it looked close enough lol I am small and the outer cordage of yours looks fatter than mine (if so, kudos, it both looks better & lets you begin brummelling earlier which is most of why it ensures a snugger fit, more secure from lateral forces...and if up/down forces are problems your system needs re-evaluation)

Hope you consider going >6', that's limiting and a 12' isn't (and can do all a 6' can, for a measly weight & size addition ), would love to hear how you're gonna be using this like trying to spread it or just wrapping and placing all 3 together? If the latter is it because 2 seemed insufficient radius? If so I'd love to hear what weights you use, I find the angles from the Bloc far less friendly as-terminal but use that, and my pair of xl's tends to just get slung nearby for friction and 'fairleading' the rope to me in a comfortable way, more often than it's actually to make use of the tree's architecture....most things I'm solo rigging are, inherently, just not putting any real hits on anything

Can't wait to see pics, just did 3 splices in <2hrs (wait 6, technically, was 3 hitch cords but it's hollow braid Ice Tail so not really fair to count much harder than tec for sure,. and t-rex - somehow - made things even easier than TEC had

 

[Benjo75]

It's 3/4 Tenex Tec. Intended to use 2 XLarge Rings and one Beast ring on the other end. I have plenty of long slings with rings and blocks too. I wanted a few shorter slings. A few mainly for remotely setting and retrieving. That's what this one is for which is why I only want it 5 to 6 ft. I don't have very many short slings but I have plenty of long slings. I keep 3 bucket trucks full of rigging gear so a few extra won't hurt anything.

I wanted a few 3 rings slings. David Driver says in his X Rigging video that when he went to 3 rings that the rigging rope stopped breaking at the rings and started breaking elsewhere when tested.

 

[Brocky]

Is there some reason the rings are side by side instead of inline?

 

[Benjo75]

Just turn them.

 

[Brocky]

That puts a 90 degree twist on each leg, possibliby being slightly weaker? Looking again, you’re probably right, there’s a lot of flexibility there.

 

[Benjo75]

They're not stiff. They'll turn easily. And stay where you put them.

 

[Benjo75]

If I'm doing something wrong then everyone else is too.