Door knockers in Oz caught in Channel 9 sting

sean_freeman

sean_freeman

Location
Titirangi, Auckland, NZ
Here's a youtube vid replaying a commercial TV channel CH9 sting operation here in Queensland Australia to highlight a problem that I know is worldwide http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=8SiVAt7IRqk

Oh yes its made by someone some of you might know
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Not to hijack Sean. But I feel awful if elderly are being abused and/or ripped off. But in my area when pricing removals and such, I know some co.'s might have been $500 to $1000 higher than me, and sometimes I am much higher. That doesnt mean that anyone was trying to rip someone off, It just means that they were a little high that day. And the guy on the vid stating what he would bid the job at, well, how do we know he is not one of those, "I want every job I bid," kind of guys. So he could be dirt cheap.

I dont know, but I hate to see a co. messed with if they really were not doing anything.

Besides isnt it the customers JOB to get several estimates, and make an educated informed decision. Not trying to steal the thread, just playin a little advocate, and sort of tryin to prove a point.

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Its fine to be high, each person/company has their own calculation of what they need to make on each job to make the profit they want....However the issue here (and from numerous conversations with Arbs in US over there too) is

1)that there are a great many companies that do not have any of the legally required registration/insurance/training to operate.
2)it not legal to door knock, unsolicited trading, pressured sales/stand over tatics (and this is what goes on)

In such instances a great deal of tree work is undertaken at cost for no other reason than to provide money to greedy individuals, from people who are ill placed to either judge what is or is not required to manage their trees, or to resist the sales tatics used to gain their permission to undertake the work.
 
The only thing I saw that he did wrong was offer a cash price for the work. If homeowners want to go with the first bid and only the first bid, their partly to blame. I think if he added on to the price when all was said and done that was wrong as well.
 
At some time in life children start to step in and parent their parents. Having family structures in place to barricade elderly from predatory practices is important.

Having a talk about what decisions or amount of money to spend should be discussed and agreed upon before the money is gone.

Pricing opinions based on the stump really are suspect. In other consumer protection pieces a price is set before the sting. Having Eric come in after the fact and deflate the prices gives the report less credibility.

Not that the fellas don't seem to be quilty of a ripoff.

With the availability of google to almost everyone there is little excuse to be an uneducated consumer.
 
After thinking about this a little bit I would have to say that I think the second gentleman acted less professional in his apparent self proclaimed public representation.
One thing I would never do is tell a homeowner " Oh my G--! He charged you what? I would have done it for ---." The only thing this does is cause a feeling of regret and stupidity from the homeowner, and in this case I would preferre that they live out the remainder of their days knowing they got the job done and apparently well with nothing broken. Elderly do tend to worry more that things are going to break and fall so it is a sham if the first company played on these fears.
 
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At some time in life children start to step in and parent their parents.

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Hey I had my kid when I was 16. So how long will I have to wait untill he starts buying me stuff?
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"Having Eric come in after the fact and deflate the prices gives the report less credibility."

I agree totally on that. Eric, is all for making himself look good at other peoples expense. What a cheap shot. Coming from the anonymous crusader himself.
 
I must be different in the USA I don't know, but here one reason why we have legislation intended to prevent door to door pressure sales is to remove the opportunity for unscrupulous characters from exploiting the vulnerable.

There are a whole range of problems with these door knocking "companies" many are unregistered, unlicensed, uninsured, and unqualified. They don't explain these things to the person who answers the door...nor the consequences for the property owner if something goes wrong during the job.

Its perfectly true that the internet has made it much easier for those with a computer and the ability to gather a great deal of information about any topic they choose, not sure that this is all that relevant to the most vulnerable in our communities.

Its is perfectly true that Eric is very successful at promoting the message he feels passionately about, and sure that can be irritating at times, but this particular message is far less about Eric than it is about the increasing volume of illegal innappropriate work being undertaken by blokes with saws.

Private people will always have the right to spend their savings as they see fit, but perhaps if you ponder on this analogy;

A door knocking motor mechanic tells your aging father or mother that they were just passing and noticed the car in the driveway has tell tale signs of brake failure. Now its lucky cause they are in the area to do some brake work on a vehicle round the corner, and can fit them in but it has to be today and in the next 2hrs....cheap rate for them.
$500-$1000 later they have had their pefectly safe and operational car tampered with by an unqualified idiot who wouldn't know the brake hose from the battery lead.

Now it is the nature of analogies to be somewhat inadequate ways of getting a message across, especially since there are numerous differences between tree work and car machanics.

But would you feel unhappy about the actions of the door knocking chap with a shifter, would you think that the worst aspect of his actions was asking for cash..or something a little more serious?
 
After the dust settled on this scene what happened?

If it's illegal to door knock then it seems like a police issue...cut and dried. Rather than take issues like this to the media why not take them to the police and have them enforce the law? The setup for such a simple sting operation would make it something for the rookie squad. If the police are doing stings/buys with criminals who tend to be armed and dangerous some jackleg tree cutters would be an easy nab.
 
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I must be different in the USA I don't know, but here one reason why we have legislation intended to prevent door to door pressure sales is to remove the opportunity for unscrupulous characters from exploiting the vulnerable.

There are a whole range of problems with these door knocking "companies" many are unregistered, unlicensed, uninsured, and unqualified. They don't explain these things to the person who answers the door...nor the consequences for the property owner if something goes wrong during the job.

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You and eric whinge about the door knocking and licensing issues but the report was focused all on price. Price is set by the end consumer. They have the choice to take it or not.

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Private people will always have the right to spend their savings as they see fit, but perhaps if you ponder on this analogy;

A door knocking motor mechanic tells your aging father or mother that they were just passing and noticed the car in the driveway has tell tale signs of brake failure. Now its lucky cause they are in the area to do some brake work on a vehicle round the corner, and can fit them in but it has to be today and in the next 2hrs....cheap rate for them.
$500-$1000 later they have had their pefectly safe and operational car tampered with by an unqualified idiot who wouldn't know the brake hose from the battery lead.

Now it is the nature of analogies to be somewhat inadequate ways of getting a message across, especially since there are numerous differences between tree work and car machanics.

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yes, they are different. Knocking palm bits into one's yard and then hauling them off ain't rocket surgery, sorry, but it is not. You don't need arborist cert to get that done. You need a chainsaw and a 3rd grade education...common sense would help too.

And it is way different than servicing a car's critical systems. Plus, what if I want to pay a door knocker $30 to change my pads or trim my trees? Sheesh, what happened to freedom?

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Im wondering abou this so called legislature against door to door sales?

Is it illegal? Are there laws against it nationwide?

I dont know about you but I would rather see a man take initative to earn his living, rahter than sit at home collecting unemployment. And I mean an honest living.

If you need to be licensed to do tree work-then they need to get that. They need to be a legitimate company with insurance and not offer cash discounts, right? If you have all of that and are willing to show your clients, I see no problem with door to door sales.

Yellow pages is probably behind the legislature you talk about.
 
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You and eric whinge about the door knocking and licensing issues but the report was focused all on price. Price is set by the end consumer. They have the choice to take it or not.

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Hmmm perhpas I'll try to be a little clearer, although I did think I had been clear enough in what I was trying to say......

We have legislation specificalllt designed to prevent unscrupulous persons from ripping off the weak and vulnerable, you may not have that in the US i don't know.

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what happened to freedom?

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Freedom to do what exactly....lie decieve extort???? Hmmmm good luck with that
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Do you really believe that someone like the old lady in the TV piece is able to deal with standover tatics of some guy telling her that her trees are dangerous and should be removed....and this is what goes.

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You don't need arborist cert to get that done. You need a chainsaw and a 3rd grade education...common sense would help too.

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Yes absolutely anyone can own a chainsaw, or a shifter, to operate a business in Queensland you have to by law be registered insured and if you pay workers you have to abide by all the laws governing their pay, insurance etc... Very few of these things are true of the door knockers....should they be exposed when they act in ways that are unacceptable to the values of our communities? I happen to think so, you may not.

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Plus, what if I want to pay a door knocker $30 to change my pads or trim my trees?

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Private people will always have the right to spend their savings as they see fit

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Yeah, but this guy had a company shirt didn't he? A truck nicer than Ek's? How do you know he wasn't insured? So he asked for a cashie - what treeman doesn't like the odd cashie instead of the invoice and wait for a check in the mail.

If the old dear can't properly manage money, she needs to give the checkbook over to someone else.

Different strokes for different folks. I would rather lead by example and carry money to the bank rather than just be a thorn in one's backside.

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