Descending a static line....

4. Aloha in Hawaii means

  • good morning

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • good evening

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • hello

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • good nature towards fellow human beings

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • all of the above

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
T

tophopper

As some may have noticed in Treebing's F8 revolver thread, I have strong reservations about descending on a static line implementing ONLY a hitch. Im curious as to how you see it.

Please vote accordingly, and comment as to why you feel as you do. Remember this is descending a static(non moving rope) single or doubled, without the use of a descent device. ONLY a hitch.
 
I voted it as "relatively safe," but my vote comes with a disclaimer. First I say, "relative to what?"

When I lived in NJ, maybe around 2003 I experimented with this for a while. I was able to find a combination of hitch, hitch cord, and descent line that responded "relatively" well. I had to pull down pretty hard to get it to work, and pulling too hard would put you in a free fall scenario. But it locked up nice and tight when I let go.

That said, here's the disclaimer. I did a lot of trial and error to come up with a workable combo. I believe it was a 7/16" hollow braid vectran sling spliced with a full length bury thus making the line almost 3/4" in diameter and I was tying some variation of the blakes that I don't remember.

All-in-all, I'm with tophopper on this one. Though it CAN be safe, I think it's best to avoid it all together.

love
nick
 
I don't do it. If I'm going down a static line I clip an eight to my leg strap delta and a vT on my bridge.
 
Seen some solo rock climbing setups similar to "F8 revolver"

Any of these are easier to use in the tree. Works on rock...

Way more friction decending on the hitch using SRT.

I like a BRD for that part.

Can't tell how safe it is...

Cool setup otherwise.
 
To me, there is a lot of diffrance in descending a hitch on SRT vs. DdRT. For 1 thing, the DdRT hitch is half loaded.

But, also; if the 2 legs of line of DdRT were seperate lines, and 1 was extended, the other automatically takes (more of) the loadings. So, the DdRT hitch when moved down, extends that lefg of line, and the loading can go over to the other leg of line temporarily to unload the hitch; and thus allow low friction slide. The more friction(buffer) at TIP, the more each leg is isolated, and thus the more the effcet worx. i've tested it with scales on each leg of line,a nd when i slid the hitch down, that leg of line only had like 20# on it.

In SRT the hitch tends to grab tighter as you attempt to 'extend' that leg of line by sliding hitch. You can get a hitch at just the right amount of slip and grab/tuning, to get it to werk, but not consistently or as safely IMLHO.

So, for me; without heat dissipating metal etc.; i don't believe the proper mechanics are there for SRT descent on single hitch.
 
I have tried several different setups with hitches and I never could get one to feel just right, the sweet spot was always changing, don't really think a hitch is for everybody. I'll take my Uni.
 
tophopper, i think to really answer this question, go out to your apple tree with a matress and try it. with some stopper knots like tom said and dont go higher than 10 feet. .take a couple kinds of cords with you.
 
wheres the very safe slot? If you are going to mix tree and rock you should understand them both fully though. When creating such heat always try to find a heat sink. Ever try using a biner tied into your hitch. It's a trick cavers do if they have to decend on just a hitch. So when you tie your VT on the top 3-4 wraps you wrap a biner in with the rope this way you have a heat sink plus make the hitch piont wider at the most friction point.
 
[ QUOTE ]
wheres the very safe slot? If you are going to mix tree and rock you should understand them both fully though. When creating such heat always try to find a heat sink. Ever try using a biner tied into your hitch. It's a trick cavers do if they have to decend on just a hitch. So when you tie your VT on the top 3-4 wraps you wrap a biner in with the rope this way you have a heat sink plus make the hitch piont wider at the most friction point.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you think its very safe? Good for you!
The biner inside the hitch, yeah that'll make the hitch grab real well now wont it.

Id like to hear from cavers that feel its safe to descend on just a hitch. Like I mentioned, if a hitch was appropraite to descend on, dont you think that just maybe Smith and Padgett would make mention of it? According to them, to descend you need a hardware device. Ive thought long and hard about this, and I would never in a million years. Especially since a munter could be throw in so very easily to take the load. Then the hitch would simply be a back up. Not a descender.
 
[ QUOTE ]
tophopper, i think to really answer this question, go out to your apple tree with a matress and try it. with some stopper knots like tom said and dont go higher than 10 feet. .take a couple kinds of cords with you.

[/ QUOTE ]


Or I could just get a revolver and a single bullet and play Russian roulette. The odds are probably better.
 
[ QUOTE ]
The biner inside the hitch, yeah that'll make the hitch grab real well now wont it.


[/ QUOTE ]

uuummmmm wtf I posted a helpful tip to his or your problem with the hitch for descent, and you blast me for it??? Ok, thats fine have fun with it. But, before you go too far with the brain leakage of stupidity I would say do some homework on semimechanical hitches and their uses. besides they are talking bout long fast descents not a slow little here little there work practice. And uuummm I guess what is written can't be changed or that new ideas can't work cuase these 2 guys said you can only do it this way. If that was the case we'd still be spiking and using 3 strand. You think maybe they didn't say anything about it cuase, the hitch cord would wear out to fast, maybe they didn't have the type of cords we do now when they wrote the book on it.
 
[ QUOTE ]


uuummmmm wtf I posted a helpful tip to his or your problem with the hitch for descent, and you blast me for it???

[/ QUOTE ]


To be fair, he was trying to be helpful, but you certified guys always gotta take it one step too far!
wink.gif




SZ
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The biner inside the hitch, yeah that'll make the hitch grab real well now wont it.


[/ QUOTE ]

uuummmmm wtf I posted a helpful tip to his or your problem with the hitch for descent, and you blast me for it??? Ok, thats fine have fun with it. But, before you go too far with the brain leakage of stupidity I would say do some homework on semimechanical hitches and their uses. besides they are talking bout long fast descents not a slow little here little there work practice. And uuummm I guess what is written can't be changed or that new ideas can't work cuase these 2 guys said you can only do it this way. If that was the case we'd still be spiking and using 3 strand. You think maybe they didn't say anything about it cuase, the hitch cord would wear out to fast, maybe they didn't have the type of cords we do now when they wrote the book on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

First off, if you consider that a blast, you need thicker skin.
Secondly, I dont have a problem that needs solving. I already know my stance on the subject and am sticking to it.
Thirdly, show me one piece of literature that shows where any hitch is suitable for descent.
 
I used to use my V.T. on a single line decent when chunking down wood, on a spar, with no nubs to create a T.I.P. I only did it with short distances and always kept my lanyard around the spar. As of late, I have been using the Gri-Gri for that method.

I didn't like the idea of the high heat it made and it was prone to creeping.

I think it is a relatively safe method, if the hitch is monitored.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom