Decision Point Approaches

[Steve Connally]

So, if I understand this correctly, your work is almost exclusively being sub-contracted in to do jobs for other tree companies.
Is that right?

100%

 

[Steve Connally]

Wishing you the best, Steve!

Been climbing any trees, lately? Might be good in many ways.

I haven't. I am lonely for climbing but I don't really have anyone to climb with so that really kinda takes the wind out of it for me a little. I need to get past doing it alone but so much could happen out in the woods by myself. My network of friends has evolved much like social media has helped evolve society. People I would see because people I would talk to, to text, to thumbs up, to no engagement at all. It's just difficult for me to go out there alone and do it. I shouldn't let that get in my way.

 

[Steve Connally]

First up dont trip on bend radius conversations to be a 'modern' climber, its a interesting topic but it really boils down to tried and true.

I don't envy your position at all, it sounds like tough choices that no one really wants to make, yet many do have to make them.

Can you do solo crane jobs, and seek a employee/sub climber with skills to help you? I get the POV where this could be competing with your target customer base, but if your target customer base isn't providing the bread and butter.....

You are a humble man, and massive hats off with respect. I wouldn't trip on your talk. Just tell it how it is, much like you did with this post. Worse case, and you do have to 'throw in the towel' so to speak, there is a huge lesson there as you posted today. You are in a multifactorial situation, in which you did your best in anticipating, you are speaking to the factors which are out of your control. Yet, while you put effort into mitigating this. As well, you are doing something entirely novel and new. This social/economic world can invent unheard of factors.. Predicting this makes physics and bend ratios simple and predictable.

Chin up, your frank humbleness makes for leadership we can all look up to.

I have done my own thing in the past. The issue is, and the reason I talk homeowners out of no clean up jobs is, I feel like they get in over their heads and nobody wins. We are suburban and urban. There is no easy way to dispose of the material. So many rules. When the brush pile the size of their house sits there as they try to take pickup load after load on Saturdays to the dump, they end up getting fined from the city. Then they have to call somebody to do the disposal who charges them double because we all know how chipping homeowner brush is a nightmare. They usually come out cheaper and with less stress hiring a decent company for a turn key job. It just has bad optics when I made the mess and the neighborhood assumes I screwed over the customer. I prefer to pass the job to someone who might use me.

 

[Steve Connally]

Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes!
I think every business owner has taken hits and questioned whether or not they want or are strong enough to continue. I know I’ve been there, a few times, but I am too stubborn to call it, I’ll die trying. In times of great stress you have to retool, reinvest, rethink, reinvent, and rework your plan. Stay strong stay positive. You have skills and hardware that are valuable to others never forget that. The market will pick up just be stubborn enough to take the hits as they come.
I know it’s rough and the stress is unbearable at times but I don’t think you or anyone else who gets into treework didn’t have passion for it.

The key is I am not willing to deplete what I have and go deeper in debt for something that might or might not bounce back. If I can get out unscathed rather than get out owing money I cant recoup of filing bankrupt then I'll go before that. I can't allow the business to effect the finances of my personal life or my family. I'll get out while I can still recoup some investment rather than take out loans to pay loans. I'm just not that in love with it to carry that financial anchor for the rest of my days. I rework my plan 100 times a day all day and sometimes at night. I have been working on this in my head for many months now. I hear you.

 

[Steve Connally]

Steve, I listened to your video several times the other day and thought about it since then. Seriously, it really hit home with me. I'm still not sure what to say but feel a real sense identity. For now I'll just say your skills and knowledge are what make you, that is your identity, not the tools you use or the hat/helmet you wear. THAT IS WHAT WILL SEE YOU THRU. When you speak, and I wish I could be there but don't have the time, remind people that your real story is one of success...with some ups and downs.
You have and do, give so much to the climbing community, I've watched you donate thousands to the climbing competitions to sponsor events, that is difficult as a small company. One would think all of this given to support the community would be enough but I don't know the business model and the competition that exists. I can only hope that the good guys always win.

Thank you Richard. This market has no sense of community and has almost no knowledge there is even a community out there. They all think they are the best in the world and have no idea what you and many have seen in this world of climbing. Thank you for everything you said.

 

[Steve Connally]

I’m sorry that you’re going through a tough time Steve. You are in my prayers. I’ve seen how God provides. I should be in debt over my son’s cancer treatments because we found out that we were under insured. Through a series of unexplainable events everything got covered and my son survived stage four brain cancer!

A few months ago God put a burden on my heart for a family that helped watch our oldest son while my son Zeb was in the hospital. I heard that they were going through a difficult financial crisis. So I prayed, “God what do you want me to do for this family?” A few days later I went to work for a client who lived across the street from the mother of the wife of the family that helped us. We got the pruning job done in the morning and went to lunch. My helper ended up paying for my lunch because I forgot to bring my wallet from home. Then I got a call from another tree guy asking if I could take the top out of a pine that he couldn’t reach with his bucket truck. We took care of it that afternoon and he paid me $300 in cash. Then I remembered that I had left a sling at the previous job, so after dropping off my helper I went back to get it. While I was there I decided to walk across the street and ask the mother for some prayer (She is one of the most devoted people I know of, to prayer). She started talking about her family and she mentioned that her daughter (the one who helped my family) was having car trouble. She went on to talk about something else, but I said wait a minute, what’s wrong with her car? She said that the husband originally thought that the car had a really expensive transmission problem, but now he thinks it’s a $300 part. My jaw about hit the floor. I had forgotten my wallet and the only money I had on me that day was from a job I wasn’t even planning on! God provides according to his will.

I hope that encourages you Steve.

Thank you for sharing that story!!! I'm happy everything has had such a wonderful impact on you and the people around you. I cannot imagine your experience with your child. So much respect for you

 

[Steve Connally]

First - here's to hoping for a turnaround so things pick up quickly. Or, absent that, hoping you find a new path you can follow that will bring vocational fulfillment, allow you to use your expertise, and meet your needs.

However, my reply is more to the question of your upcoming presentation. If you stood up and talked about a fool proof business model and here's what it looks like, then I heard you were struggling, I'd doubt everything you said. Heck, even if you were wildly successful for 30 years, I'd still doubt any "fool proof" model. I'd be far more interested to hear you discuss a business model, talk about why you think it's a good model and share your successes. AND talk about struggles and - even if you don't know all of the causes - give reasons or theorizes about where things might go wrong or have gone wrong. Even if you don't know the cures...heck, someone there may be able to help???

Point: you have a LOT of value to a crowd like that. Don't second guess your ability to help others!

I always try to be "real". I will very much be discussing the current state of the biz. My hopes are I can help someone else with this journey. Thats why I'm presenting. It's always why I've done it. I've tried very hard not to allow myself to turn into someone who promotes my own brand for whatever reason. This site and the vets on here years ago taught me to be genuine and make this a better industry any way I can. The old salts in the FD were like that also. You have to give back, but not for the clicks.

 

[Steve Connally]

Yo Steve, longtime fan. Been watching your journey for years... Is your son on his own yet? If so, maybe time to walk the earth. I'd try not to stress, brother. You've done enough work, several lifetimes worth by some standards. ️

Thank you so much. I'm old enough to understand your screen name. Saturday nights, my Dad always had MP on then Benny Hill. My son is 15. My wife and I both think the future holds a place where we are not beholden to some walls and a homeowners association. We're so restless for a change. I hope the world still lends itself to those opportunities in the coming years.

 

[Steve Connally]

I want to say I tried to address specific questions with my replies. There were so many thoughtful and moving responses I could be on here for hours on conversation with each of you. The depth of response, or no response does not reflect how I feel about what you said or the importance of it. Everything someone took the time to write to me in support is recognized and appreciated. The story is long and detailed. I can tell you I have probably done or though of so many things people suggest to me. It's amazing, some people I have communicated with appear to think I literally sat there and did nothing waiting for them to come tell me exactly how to fix this situation from hundreds of miles away with no knowledge of the operation. What I appreciate from everyone here is you recognized this is an emotional place for me at the present time. I have worked the technical aspects of the situation hard. Not saying somebody isn't gonna throw the curve\ball at me I never though of......obviously I'm not an expert at this. But rite now it's raw. It feels, it stimulates emotional responses of varying degrees. I really appreciate people seeing that and coming from a place of humanity and empathy or understanding. Gotta be honest. This year has been really dark. There's such a fine line I cannot find with detachment and hyper focus. There's a fine line between climbing in a cave and never coming out to getting out there and being involved because I need it. It's just a strange place to be. I never ever saw myself as being the person who I am today. I really don't even recognize me. It's crazy. I have always been on point. Based on previous occupations, I was the leader under fire, the split second decision maker, the go to. In 2024 I literally cant get my shit together. I guess in saying that, I want to again tell you how much everyones words mean to me. I don't need the suggestion to sling trusses. I thought of that a long time ago. If I could get the work, I'd be doing it. Been on the planet for a while and not new to the work force, the industry, or running a biz. What I appreciate is the words of personal understanding, encouragement, or just relating to what I'm saying. Thank you all for taking time out of your day to have an exchange with me. It's so sad its a rare occurrence in this day an age. I'm glad I found it here again. If you're in Asheville this weened say hi to me and @climbhightree. We might be the only 3 in the class. LOL. Thanks everyone

 

[data farm 26]

Thank you so much. I'm old enough to understand your screen name. Saturday nights, my Dad always had MP on then Benny Hill. My son is 15. My wife and I both think the future holds a place where we are not beholden to some walls and a homeowners association. We're so restless for a change. I hope the world still lends itself to those opportunities in the coming years.

Right on, Steve. That's rad that you remarried. Being There is such a great flick full of cool lines about trees etc. we should all emulate Chance the gardener, at least a little bit! Whatever you decide I hope it's smooth.
Levi

 

[Steve Connally]

Right on, Steve. That's rad that you remarried. Being There is such a great flick full of cool lines about trees etc. we should all emulate Chance the gardener, at least a little bit! Whatever you decide I hope it's smooth.
Levi Rockett

Thanks Levi. Both my parents loved that movie. I had the screen name confused with a Monty Python skit. Boy that shoe tastes good rite now. LOL. I did remarry. She's a wonderful woman. Friends with my first wife. It's very special for her to help that legacy carry on for my son. I got really lucky twice!!

 

[Boomslang]

Steve, we worked the aerial rescue together at the NATCC. You were nothing but professional and knowledgeable and I could see that you were so passionate about what you do. You have so much to offer. As much as this is a professional issue with regards to finances and workload, I sense deep personal issues that may be unaddressed. I felt it in Washington too.

I've been there too. When your professional life seeps into personal. You can't let that happen. It will ruin both worlds. Depression doesn't care who it affects. You need to talk to someone. We're all here for you (on the the buzz) obviously, but our responses are limited and not of the scholarly type. If you want to talk to me the lines are open, but I recommend seeking out professional therapy. Do not let money get in the way of life. You have a family. That's what matters most. They'll stick with you through anything. You are a talented and skilled individual with much to offer. Never ever forget that.

 

[evo]

I have done my own thing in the past. The issue is, and the reason I talk homeowners out of no clean up jobs is, I feel like they get in over their heads and nobody wins. We are suburban and urban. There is no easy way to dispose of the material. So many rules. When the brush pile the size of their house sits there as they try to take pickup load after load on Saturdays to the dump, they end up getting fined from the city. Then they have to call somebody to do the disposal who charges them double because we all know how chipping homeowner brush is a nightmare. They usually come out cheaper and with less stress hiring a decent company for a turn key job. It just has bad optics when I made the mess and the neighborhood assumes I screwed over the customer. I prefer to pass the job to someone who might use me.

Gotcha, the only thought that I have regarding that element it to sub out a company to do the ground work/cleanup

 

[Steve Connally]

Gotcha, the only thought that I have regarding that element it to sub out a company to do the ground work/cleanup

Yeah I did that and it got really complicated. I also have to hold a ghost policy on comp that was a ridiculous charge for coverage the sub already had. I didn't feel like it brought me enough income to justify the expense when I could just refer it to a good primary that would sub me.

 

[Steve Connally]

Steve, we worked the aerial rescue together at the NATCC. You were nothing but professional and knowledgeable and I could see that you were so passionate about what you do. You have so much to offer. As much as this is a professional issue with regards to finances and workload, I sense deep personal issues that may be unaddressed. I felt it in Washington too.

I've been there too. When your professional life seeps into personal. You can't let that happen. It will ruin both worlds. Depression doesn't care who it affects. You need to talk to someone. We're all here for you (on the the buzz) obviously, but our responses are limited and not of the scholarly type. If you want to talk to me the lines are open, but I recommend seeking out professional therapy. Do not let money get in the way of life. You have a family. That's what matters most. They'll stick with you through anything. You are a talented and skilled individual with much to offer. Never ever forget that.

Wait.....we worked North American together? I don't remember discussing knowing each other from the buzz. Am I not remembering a conversation? We've both been on here for a long time. I'm kinda floored there was no discussion of our interaction on here. Embarrassingly I have to ask you if you can refresh my memory about North American. I even pulled up the l pic from the ISA newsletter to look at our group picture.

We all have personal stuff. What I know is through my journey I am the only one who is going to figure this out. I'm confident in that. I'm wondering what indication I was giving you I needed "professional therapy"? Money isn't in the way of any aspect of my life. I have been very careful to make sure that isn't an issue. Thats why the decision will be made before there is a crossover that could complicate my families financial situation. It's so not about the money at all in the big picture. I don't think all "depression" needs to be solved clinically. This certainly isn't the first time I've been depressed in my life and most likely wont be my last. I think as humans we can go through periods that are described as depression and we work through them. We have the ability to do that even when it's really difficult. I believe sometimes it's part of our life's journey to have these periods of duality. I certainly don't have the answers but I'm on the search. I know I am the one who has to find the peace and clarity to work through them. My family is most certainly top priority. I agree 100%!!! I appreciate what you're saying. I'm trying to put in the correct context.

 

[flushcut]

The key is I am not willing to deplete what I have and go deeper in debt for something that might or might not bounce back. If I can get out unscathed rather than get out owing money I cant recoup of filing bankrupt then I'll go before that. I can't allow the business to effect the finances of my personal life or my family. I'll get out while I can still recoup some investment rather than take out loans to pay loans. I'm just not that in love with it to carry that financial anchor for the rest of my days. I rework my plan 100 times a day all day and sometimes at night. I have been working on this in my head for many months now. I hear you.

Have a hug! I wish you the best with whatever The Fates throw your way.

 

[Steve Connally]

Have a hug! I wish you the best with whatever The Fates throw your way.

I'll take the hug. Thank you!!

 

[ATH]

I'm outside the window for that unfortunately. Its not the homeowner anyway. Its the tree guy I subbed for.

Regarding a lien on property...first, never gonna be a popular option. Second I don't claim to know these things but I have a friend to works in finance for a contractor supply company...so this comes from his stories about getting paid when the contractor skips.

He lends the money to the contractor and the contractor specifies which property those materials will be used on. Within a short window of that purchase/loan he notifies the property owner their property has been used as collateral. If that contractor doesn't pay, he puts a lien on the property. If he doesn't file that letter at the start of the project state law (in Ohio) doesn't allow him put a lien on the property. He hates sending that letter because it kinda sounds like he IS putting a lien on the property, so he gets phone calls and almost never uses that option...he just needs to have the paperwork filed. Again, I have no idea about VA, but since you are a subcontractor, my guess is something similar would have to happen to be able to put a lien on the property. Might be something to look into if you end up doing a really big project for a new contractor/client????

 

[Boomslang]

Wait.....we worked North American together? I don't remember discussing knowing each other from the buzz. Am I not remembering a conversation? We've both been on here for a long time. I'm kinda floored there was no discussion of our interaction on here. Embarrassingly I have to ask you if you can refresh my memory about North American. I even pulled up the l pic from the ISA newsletter to look at our group picture.

We all have personal stuff. What I know is through my journey I am the only one who is going to figure this out. I'm confident in that. I'm wondering what indication I was giving you I needed "professional therapy"? Money isn't in the way of any aspect of my life. I have been very careful to make sure that isn't an issue. Thats why the decision will be made before there is a crossover that could complicate my families financial situation. It's so not about the money at all in the big picture. I don't think all "depression" needs to be solved clinically. This certainly isn't the first time I've been depressed in my life and most likely wont be my last. I think as humans we can go through periods that are described as depression and we work through them. We have the ability to do that even when it's really difficult. I believe sometimes it's part of our life's journey to have these periods of duality. I certainly don't have the answers but I'm on the search. I know I am the one who has to find the peace and clarity to work through them. My family is most certainly top priority. I agree 100%!!! I appreciate what you're saying. I'm trying to put in the correct context.

For some reason I wasn't in that pic. Maybe I was late that day or off eating somewhere? I was one of the scorers. Tall guy. If you remember. We exchanged a few pleasantries, but I'm like you, tend to keep to myself.

Re-reading what I posted, I apologize if it came off patronizing. I was a little drunk when I wrote it and at the time thought I was reading between the lines that there could be deeper issues. No offense intended or taken I hope.

I'm sure things will turn around. You seem like a smart and resilient person.

 

[Dan Thornton]

I don't think all "depression" needs to be solved clinically.

Agree totally. Over my lifetime, simply not making any big decisions when 'down' has been critical. Knowing it's a matter of time (or exercise or rest or safe people ...) lets me wait it out. Only one time did it last so long and so deep for me that I went for professional counseling, and that counseling was worth the money and time ten times over.
I also totally agree on the part - "my family is top priority." Won't put them at risk!
Wishing you the very best!