Customer call backs.....

MTCInc

MTCInc

Location
Bay Area, California
Our policy on every job is to keep the communication open while we are on the job with the client.. specifically at the end. We let them know we are done, and give them a chance to look over the work before we commit to leave so we can avoid any potential call backs.

Well, we did a job at the end of April. On Monday of this week, the customer emailed me.

"Thanks for the invoice, but could you please come out next time you are in the area? We were expecting more taken off the tree, and having it pulled back from the house more. Sorry for not getting in touch with you sooner".

I spoke with my guys, the confirmed with me they met with the client before they left. She even instructed them where to dump the chips.

What do you guys do? I mean, she has not even payed me yet for this job, going on 1 month.. then, 3 weeks after the job, she wants me to come back. That is the problem with tree work... it is so subjective. Everyone has a different eye on what it is to look like when done.

I want to be fair, but I feel the client is not being fair. She had the chance to voice here concerns the day we were there. Call backs are highly avoidable, and are also very time consuming!
 
You kinda got hosed, I think you should probably go back and take some more off because she's the customer. Yep it's been too long but still, you want your customers to be satisfied with your results, right? It's just one of those lessons you learn... not all that expensive really.

I try to do a walk around and get the customer's approval on every job but sometimes it just doesn't happen. With prunes I like to get them to look while the climber or at least the rope is still in the tree.

You could have customers sign a copy of the invoice before you leave.

I'm surprised at how many arborists on here give payment terms to customers. I do that with people who are in a jam sometimes but normally I expect payment immediately on completion, before we leave the property.
 
It sounds like the only step missing in your process is the customer signing off on the completed work. There could be no confusion then. But since there isn't Blinky's got the solution, go back discuss it with the client then do what ever extra is needed. Or you may have a frank discussion at that point that can lead to a compromise on the additional work. Something along the lines that the workers did give her the opportunity to address any issues regarding the work. However, since you'd like your clients to be satisfied you can do the additional work for a reduced rate.
 
i aqree.it is a REAL pia when this stuff happens. Sinin off on completed work is qreat but a lot of times our clients are not home. It helps if you use a laser pointer when sellinq the job and then just make sure you hit stated limbs.
Also sickeninq detail helps as well.i have experimented w photos....i have had moderate success with that approach? The key is when we have on our sales rep hat to take the time to et it riht. The up front work helps a lot of problems on the back end!!
 
Yep, it sux going back. It sux just as bad when you give them the opportunity while you are on site and they become anal.

We had a job yesterday. the customer was very specific that she wanted her side of the bushes pruned and any work on the 'other' side would have to be paid for by the nieghbors.

Well, one neighbor was paying, the other not. My customer was upset we didn't do the side of the non-paying neighbor.

I don't know....whenever I get a call back I suck it up, unless it is really outside the original work order. I then make a mental note that any future work for this customer will be written up in no uncertain terms.

I had a customer a couple of years ago with a huge silver maple. Right from the get go I knew they were high-maintenance type people.

the job went well but it was 'change the terms as they went'.

Eventually they wanted to add stump grinding, whining at the price. They wanted the stump ground out 100% to plant grass, didn't want to pay for disposal of the grindings, topsoil, seed or labor to plant the stuff. "that all should be included in the price of grinding!"

Well, due to rocks embedded in the stump, along with it's size I knew that grinding would not get the stump out 100% with out a backhoe.

They also didn't want to pay for the backhoe so I detailed that it would be ground sufficient for grass planting, that we'd haul the debris, bring in the soil and plant the grass. We also added spiking the remainder of the stump with KNO3 to facilitate decomposition at no charge.

I wrote out a warranty stating that if the grass didn't do well enough to the customer's satisfaction within the next year I would come back and re-grind it.

Just so happens last fall they called me demanding warranty work because they wanted to put in a side walk and parts of the unground stump were still there under the growing grass.

I did that job 3 years ago! I couldn't remember the terms so thank goodness I had the original work order.

I politely reminded them of the scope of the original project and the expiration date on the warranty. They stopped calling.

Anyhow, I firmly believe in the concept of Caveat Emptor and also believe that it runs both ways. Just because they want to hire us doesn't mean we want to work for them.

again, just my two pennies worth.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. Yeah, these situations are a real pain. But, you have all made very valuable points. I (as I had expected I would do) have emailed her back and told her I would come back out to look at the tree. But, I did politely remind her that we did make the effort to meet with her at the end of the job just to avoid this situation. I also politely requested if she could send out a check for the work that we did, since it has been just about a month.

I think that is the part that burned me the most. Did not pay, and took almost a month to say it was not what she expected.
 
To echo what was said...

my homemade contract has this
"ACCEPTANCE OF PROPOSAL I verify that I own, or have permission from the owner of, the property on which I am requesting the above work.
The above prices, specifications, and conditions are satisfactory and are hereby accepted. SSTL is authorized to perform the work as specified.
Printed Name____________________________________Signature______________________________________________ Date____/____/______ "

and for the end of the job

"ACCEPTANCE OF SATISFACTORY COMPLETION The project described above, including final clean-up, has been completed to my satisfaction.

Printed Name___________________________________Signature______________________________________________ Date____/_____/______ "




My hope is that not only will it be an indication of inspection and completion, but that with final clean-up completed, I will be protected against the customer calling for a branch that comes out of some random tree onto their property that I'd have to return for, or more importantly, a tripping accident over said branch, resulting in an injury. That part would be way more expensive than having to return to do more work for at my expense.


Has the spring growth filled in the area in which she wanted the clearance due to twig elongation, and/ or leaf/ seed weigh weighing down the branches?



I'd ask her if she met with the crew for a final inspection, and if she told them that she was satisfied?


You could explain to her that you at least need to cover your costs, and would do the work for "free" to satisfy her. This means you not taking money out of your pocket to touch-up something 3 weeks after the fact, after her inspection and approval of the work.

"I want you to be satisfied with the work, which is why the crew checked in with you before leaving. I want to keep you as a happy customer. For the additional work, it will cost me "$x.xx" to break-even to pay the expenses of travel, set-up, work, clean-up, equipment wear and tear, etc. This is without considering the lost work opportunity, or if anything doesn't work out perfectly, or considering the risks involved. Does this sound fair to you for the extra work?"


If she gets upset, you can always do it for free. If she is rational, she might say that she didn't consider all of those things, and offer to pay it, or meet you in the middle.
 
I just finished an 'unsatisfied customer' job on Saturday. I was not there for the work, as I was on another job that day. My brother did the job, the customer left, said his son would check in at the end of the job, then the son left before they finished, and my bro had no one to check in with.

The client, who I was suspicious of from the get-go, (he had chiseled me down on the price), then b*tched about 'not taking enough off.'

I just went back at the scheduled time of 8AM on Saturday, (of course no one was there and dude's cell phone was off), and took off as much as I could without skinning the tree. To my surprise, the client called me later on, came out to the job I was on, and paid me in cash. I'm still kinda pissed, but you have to do the right thing on your end. Two wrongs don't make a right.

-Tom
 
What are you using to describe scope of work?

Concepts, or concepts with measureable objectives (8' building clearance limb reduction pruned at strong lateral branch)?
 
That's the best way to do it Sean. I really feel uneasy about abstract descriptions. Happened this week. We pruned back to allow more light on the deck and he still wanted more taken off. He's a big commercial landscaper that is feeding us some great work so, we went back and did the extra.
 
[ QUOTE ]
What are you using to describe scope of work?

Concepts, or concepts with measureable objectives (8' building clearance limb reduction pruned at strong lateral branch)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't say I have a clear cut method of describing scope of work. Sometimes it's appropriate, sometimes not. I try to educate the client about what is best for the tree as well as their property, and occasionally there are compromises to achieve this balance. Going on 19 years of tree work (solo biz has mostly been part time), and I can almost count the instances like my aforementioned on one hand.

Measurable objectives don't always work with trees anyway. There's reasonable pruning and then there's excessive pruning. Some people (like this guy) think that they are getting value for the amount removed. I RARELY work for these folks, but this time I did. I should have walked when he chiseled me on the price. My mistake.

-Tom
 
[ QUOTE ]
What are you using to describe scope of work?

Concepts, or concepts with measureable objectives (8' building clearance limb reduction pruned at strong lateral branch)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, we all know that tree work is subjective. How can you say, with accurate wording, EXACTLY what you are going to do? Things change when you are in the tree.... you have to adjust for that. I try to be as accurate as I can, but always say that things usually change once we are in the tree, just because of unseen issues.

Honestly, I am pretty shocked this does not happen more frequently. Its funny how most homeowners do not recognize quality work if its staring them in the face....
 
[ QUOTE ]
That is the problem with tree work... it is so subjective. Everyone has a different eye on what it is to look like when done.

I want to be fair, but I feel the client is not being fair. She had the chance to voice here concerns the day we were there. Call backs are highly avoidable, and are also very time consuming!

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have detailed, specific estimates that document the work the customer wants done, and have them sign it prior to work being done, they have no argument. On jobs where a particular aesthetic is trying to be achieved (i.e. the client's) then stipulate that the work be done on a time and materials basis. Your crew is there until the client is satisfied, and they pay the appropriate price.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What are you using to describe scope of work?

Concepts, or concepts with measureable objectives (8' building clearance limb reduction pruned at strong lateral branch)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't say I have a clear cut method of describing scope of work. Sometimes it's appropriate, sometimes not. I try to educate the client about what is best for the tree as well as their property, and occasionally there are compromises to achieve this balance. Going on 19 years of tree work (solo biz has mostly been part time), and I can almost count the instances like my aforementioned on one hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lucky to be able to say this. Well, I should say fortunate, its not by random chance that you've had this outcome.


[ QUOTE ]

Measurable objectives don't always work with trees anyway. There's reasonable pruning and then there's excessive pruning. Some people (like this guy) think that they are getting value for the amount removed. I RARELY work for these folks, but this time I did. I should have walked when he chiseled me on the price. My mistake.

-Tom

[/ QUOTE ]

How true.

Part of this is probably getting conveyed at the time of sale. Sorta like, "Do you want proper pruning, or shoot yourself in the foot-remove a lot pruning- negatively impact the health of the tree-get a lot of epicormic "suckers" (watersprouts more accurately), and maybe some sunscald pruning?"


The chiseling part is a learning experience/ reminder for us all. Its hard to give people the high quality of work that we'd all probably rather perform when they don't want to pay for it.

I had an 2 apple prune job where she only wanted to pay $200, so I gave her $200 worth of work. ("I don't see why I should have to pay $250 of my hard earned, limited retirement money to have my trees pruned." Nobody was forcing her.) I'd have rather dealt more with all the old stubs, etc, but people get what they pay for. (not to say anything about what you did or didn't do on the chiseled down price, Tom.)
 
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