Crew Expansion

[MTCInc]

How have you guys done this? I feel like I am ready to grow more as a business. At the moment, I have two full time guys, then myself. I join in on the job sites on average of about 2-3 days a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. I am routinely booked out 4-6 weeks. I have one truck, one chipper, with it mostly paid off. By the end of next year, I should have all gear paid off.

My thoughts right now are to try and get another truck/chipper, as well as hire another person by early 2010. I am thinking that I would separate us into 2 crews of 2... me taking out the new guy, slowly training him, and then eventually getting another person on board. I guess my fear is that I will reduce my "booked out" time with 2 crews, burning through more work faster. Being booked out 2 weeks will be a little uneasy for me.

I guess my question is, how did you make the decision to bite the bullet and expand the crew? Did you go with another truck/chipper right off the bat, or did you bounce the truck/chipper around to both jobs? My other concern is that having me back out in the field for most of the week, it will leave less time for me to concentrate on selling/building up the business more.

I am getting a headache just thinking about it!

 

[Tom Dunlap]

When I tried that I ran two crews and routed one of them to follow the other and do the chipping/hauling. The logistics got complicated sometimes.

I figured it was easier to figure out how to get the work on the books and then get the work done than to be tied to an equipment payment right away.

Staffing a crew is complex as you know. Getting everyone to operate at your expectations can be a challenge.

 

[MTCInc]

[ QUOTE ]
When I tried that I ran two crews and routed one of them to follow the other and do the chipping/hauling. The logistics got complicated sometimes.

I figured it was easier to figure out how to get the work on the books and then get the work done than to be tied to an equipment payment right away.

Staffing a crew is complex as you know. Getting everyone to operate at your expectations can be a challenge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I hear you talking! It has taken almost 4 years to get the two guys I currently have to be very consistent with the quality of work I expect. I figure they are (for the most part) able to handle lots of the jobs... with me out working with the new person.

The equipment thing is perplexing. I am not against having more payments, as I will be bringing in plenty of more money... I am just worried about the "what if" syndrome. The bouncing around of the truck/chipper to complete the second job just sounds like way to much planning, and also leaving way to much room for things to really get out of control. If I have an equipment issue on one job, it trickles right on over to the second job.. hence backing things up even more and ultimately costing more money.

Thanks for the advice Tom

 

[FlashTreetop1]

MTC, one thing you also have to think about is how much gas and/or diesel juggling the truck around will use over what you already use in day to day operations. My guess would be a significant amt.

I dont try to throw my personal biz around, but the payment on a topkick 5500 I bought along with a morbark eager beaver 18, is $590 a month for four years. If I was in you shoes, and the extra fuel came to $300 extra a month or more, plus the time spent by the other crew going around and doing the extra chipping, I would definitely go with a truck and chipper. IMO

One more thing to think about is instead of having two crews, why not have one large crew. Both of my crews are 5 man crews, with two climbers in each, and a groundie that is in training to be a climber. I am one of the climbers on the one crew, and my partner is one of the climbers in the other. I will tell you that we do a gr8 job, but we blow some work out, you better believe that. A good five man crew with two climbers can do twice the work in a day of a three man. Stick two climbers in a tree if it is at all possible and see how fast it gets done. They dont get as fatigued, and watch those groundies perform, it is a beautiful thing.

Best of luck, but I am sure youll succeed no matter what the decision.

 

[southsoundtree]

easier to train the new guy by him working with the experienced crew than you trying to train him while you climb.

If you can bring someone on part-time, then you can adjust your rate of production to keep the work booked out to what keeps you comfy.

If you can bring any two-day jobs into one-day jobs by having an extra set of hands, you save a lot by cutting your drive time, set-up and pack-up time, and clean-up time (what you'd clean up for the end of the day, such as the road and driveway).

If you buy an extra truck, you need that new guy to be dependable and a fast learner. What happens if he isn't, and you need to find another new guy.

If you want to have a second two person crew, hire a very good experienced person for the new crew, so you have less training.

 

[bowlegs]

In other businesses an adviser would tell you to figure out what your breakeven point is, this is all the fixed and variable expenses of your business then figure your profit, then add the new expenses re-figure your breakeven point and estimating the added income see where you stand. If your net is raised enough to justify the added expense go for it, if it isn't take another look before you jump. It is human nature to justify doing things and buying things we think are cool, but those old figures don't lie.

 

[rfwoodvt]

Bowlegs is on solid ground with his thoughts. I've been tossing the same questions around in my head for a while and come to a couple of conclusions.

1) Employees are hard to come by and Good employees are not always to be found.
1a) Employees in general are not always to be found.

2) If I have to show up on the job site to be with my first crew on a regular basis then that crew is either not yet fully staffed or trained.

2a) If they are trained, staffed and qualified yet I still "need" to be on site with them then I am not mature enough in running my business to have more than one crew.

3) If I am not panicking wondering how in the world we are going to get "all this work done" then I don't yet need an additional crew, much less the associated equipement.

4) A second crew requires more than doubling your sales.

4a) that means if you do the sales you have less time to be with the crews

I would suggest expanding your first crew so that they can be 100% effective without you and then adding additional employees in "support" crews such as cleanup, chipping, raking stumping...stuff like that and then build your sales such that you can begin sending the second crew out to handle some of the new sales.

Eventually you will have sold more than enough for the second crew.

An old Business mentor once told me, "The problem of selling too much is easy to fix. So go create a problem!"

Hoo Boy! This is one of those topics that can go on forever...but I'll let this digest for a while.