Creating a virtual stem using a virtual redirect.

Richard Mumford-yoyoman

Richard Mumford-yoyoman

Been here a while
Location
Atlanta GA
Creating a virtual stem using a virtual redirect.
My goal is to get pretty much anywhere I want in the canopy and go anywhere I want. Sometimes the tree structure does not exist or is not sufficient for life support.
I have tried methods of using loop runners with biner etc etc. (work ok)
I find an advantage to this as apposed to say a v-rig or m-rig and it seems to go beyond what I would consider work positioning.
This is an attempt at using light wight line and tying 3 loop bowlines. First attempt was with a biner to see if it would recover well.

Creating a redirect where there is no limb, trunk or nearby tree structure. Retrievable from the ground or traversed tree. SRT.


Then second video is the concept using the triple bowline.

Creating virtual redirects for SRT by using a triple bowline in place of carabiners.

Comments? (besides, "200' will make a lot of redirects") :)




.
 
Interesting idea but I would be highly concerned about the natural movement that occures wuth redirects in the tree canopy and to put two pieces of rope against each other under load and movement may be asking for trouble. one can cut or burn through the other quite rapidly.
 
I'm with scrat on the rope on rope issue. The carabiner trick seemed decent. There is a wealth that can be done with a long enough tail

I do realize that your intent was to share ideas about redirects, but I have to say my peace in regard to your positioning for cutting on the thin stem in the first video. Give your lanyard a round turn on the stem or run it in a choked SRT mode to avoid the tendency for it to fall about when unloaded. With a round turn or cinch, it will also have the ability to hold you in place should your primary system become compromised, rather than allow you to skid down the spar. Sorry if it sounds like the safety police...that's not my intent.

Thanks for all your contributions. Keep going!
 
Also you could have worked that same tree the same way with two ropes and never had to climb either of the pines: hang your primary TIP; then hang redirect shooting over the tree to be worked; pull rope to tree into redirect ancor; install carabiner (or double pulley for ddrt); pull redirect line until satisfied with rope entry angle into tree to be worked and base tie. This technique can be used to safen hazoudous trees for a climbing removal.
 
I've done similar but as a main climbing point, not redirected, and of course no rope on rope.
 
I do that you used these trees as a example that was easy to setup and may not have been the real example as to when you would use this setup. Although there is an easier way to go about this setup without the rope on rope that others have spoke about being a problem and also without all the knots. If you know that you will be doing an extended amount of work in a out of reach area setup a basic high line. Place a pulley on the high line and then your climbing line below the pulley. Make sure you place a brake on the pulley on the high line in order to stay in place. It is nothing that has not been done, but in those odd times it can be done quick and clean.
 
In reference to Fairfield's comment, an example of a simple highline/DRT setup in the first 30 seconds or so of the video:
https://vimeo.com/70532l123

In this case the highline gave me a much more comfortable (safe) working position than I would've had from a single tree. This was part of a now completed pruning project involving a group of mature oaks and white pine, I had them all connected by highlines/traverses to make it easier to go tree-to-tree and deadwood comfortably out in the mid-space between the trees.

One challenge of working from highlines can be finding a quality second tie-in while using the saw. My long lanyard (20') made that easier to accomplish.
-AJ
 
I'm reading, thinking and considering everything being discussed, appreciate it!

This is a pretty static configuration and so far I don't see much more of a rope on rope concern then many other things we do. Amsteel is also quite abrasion resistant. Before I hang my life on it I will do more testing.
A good solution may be putting a biner thru all three of the loops on the triple bowline until I have a change to observe the movement and watch the knot with this cordage.

Yes, thanks oceans for the observation. The last 15' I should have choked the stem. My climbing line was above my head but your point and observation is appreciated.

Jeff, not sure if I understand your suggestion. I actually only climbed the pine on the left, set the lines from the ground. This was a very small oak, base maybe 5" in diameter and I was touching the highest leaf maybe 50' or 55'. The first time I clipped in and put my weight on the branch, the tree really didn't want to stay upright. Pretty sure the only thing that kept it up was my support from above. So I'm not understanding how I would get there without those pines.

Fairfield. Yes this is an example. So far I think it could really apply to a tall tree with co-dominant stems that are widely spread just like the high line. This may be a little easier to recover from the ground as well but I'm not sure and I'm not suggesting it is better or worse than anything.

moss, great example, always love your stuff.

Just want to thank those that gave some thought to this. I'm going to keep working on it. It gives some real flexibility to moving thru the canopy and taking everything with me as I go.

Ether for work or play, part of what I love about all this is engineering ways to access the canopy. I think 90% of the canopy is accessible and touchable. If it is just a tree, a group of trees or the forest I challenge myself to try to figure out how to get myself anywhere, limb, no limb etc. I'm sure you all do the same, can't help but look at a tree and think...............

One more little comment on the high line.
I've been playing with the Hitch Hiker and the shackle. Did a speed-line and some traverse with it. It is pretty cool how you can start out going down vertically with it, flatten out at the bottom and still make progress, then if you want to go up the other side if needed, just turn it around mid-point in the traverse (of course after you suspended yourself from the line with another tether)and head up the other side until it gets vertical and rope walk. I'll try to do a video next time I do it. I have a canopy cleaning to do above a plexiglass roof so maybe that will be the chance to do it.

Again, thank all!
 
The concept here is to create SRT (maybe DdRT also) redirects in places where there is not tree structure, tree to limb to tree traverses, limb to limb, drop from a high point etc. Make them recoverable from the ground or the traversed tree (base anchor or canopy anchor) and minimize the chance of it getting hung up. Creating redirects in a basket configuration of various desired lengths but connected by a continues length of rope.

Any thoughts on using

Sterling 6mm powerCORD

and perhaps small Maillon Rapide Oval Quick Links on an alpine butterfly??? in place of the triple bowline.

This looks like it could be very lightweight, avoid that "rope on rope" problem and still pull back thru the canopy easy enough.


??
 
Richard,

I picked up 40' of 6mm Sterling PowerCord in the short rope bin of a climbing store a few years back. It is great stuff. very strong, wears well, and has a good hand.

I use it for prusiks mostly. It holds very well. knots are very strong. all in all, it is great stuff
 
[ QUOTE ]
Richard,

I picked up 40' of 6mm Sterling PowerCord in the short rope bin of a climbing store a few years back. It is great stuff. very strong, wears well, and has a good hand.

I use it for prusiks mostly. It holds very well. knots are very strong. all in all, it is great stuff

[/ QUOTE ]
How does it compare to 6mm Ocean Vectran?
The description says, " Technora is a high-strength, yet lightweight material making PowerCord a great option for anchor building and haullines."
That sounds appealing. Sounds popular for tag lines, haul lines and such with rock guys.
 
Richard,

In short, very strong for its weight. My cord must be older - identical pattern as on the Sterling page, but is yellow on Green.

From my notes:

You can find interesting data on the following sites:
http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/authors/chris12.htm
http://www.mountaineers.org/seattle/climbing/Reference/Cordelette.html

"Kevlar" was one of the first high-strength fibers to be used in rope. It still offers high tensile strength and very low elongation, but has poor fatigue properties. The fibers inside the rope abrade each other, offering little indication of the reduced strength until the rope breaks. Kevlar has a very high melting point, 500 C or 932 °F. Kevlar-core ropes are sold as escape lines for firefighters - to be used once and discarded. Manufacturers have had some success at solving the self-abrasion problem by combining Kevlar with Spectra.

"Technora", like Kevlar, is an aramid, but with vastly improved fatigue properties. It shares Kevlar's high tensile strength and high melting point.

"Spectra" is a very high molecular density form of polyethylene - the same thing used to make grocery bags, six-pack carriers and milk jugs. The manufacturing process aligns the molecules, which vastly increases the strength of the material. It is twice as strong as hardened steel (per unit area) and one-tenth the density. Spectra has several difficult issues. The melting point is very low, 147 C or 297 °F, not much warmer than boiling water. The material is unbelievably slippery, which makes it difficult for manufacturers to form into a workable rope. And, while the modulus of the fibers is comparable to steel, they slowly elongate under a continuous load. This process is called "creep." It is mostly irrelevant to climbers, but annoying to sailors. Spectra/Nylon is also known as Dyneema (a trade name of Beal Ropes) in Europe.

"Vectran" is a liquid crystal polymer - its properties are between those of crystalline solids and liquids. It has similar strength to Spectra, but without the creep problems. It has poor UV resistance, which is not a problem when used as the core in kernmantel rope construction. Seven products were tested for this project. Sterling Vectran, Blue Water Titan, Black Diamond Gemini2, Maxim Spectra A, Mountain Tools Ultratape, Sterling 7mm Nylon accessory cord, and Liberty Mountain 1 inch Nylon Tubular Webbing. Sterling Vectran has a Vectran core and a Nylon sheath - it is sold in precut lengths labeled "cordelette" in addition to spools. Blue Water Titan has a braided Spectra/Nylon core and a Nylon sheath. Black Diamond Gemini2 has a Technora core and a polyester sheath. It is identical to the product sold as "Tech Cord" by Maxim (New England Rope). The original Black Diamond Gemini was a different product, similar to Maxim's Spectra-A, and has not been sold in several years. Spectra-A has a braided Spectra/Kevlar core and a polyester sheath. It has largely been replaced by Tech Cord, but is still sold, usually at cheaper prices. Ultratape is a Spectra/Nylon webbing, constructed to minimize the amount of Spectra on the outside surface. This helps protect the Spectra from UV damage, and lets knots hold better, since more Nylon is in contact.
 
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