Contract Climbing-Questions

Steve Connally

Steve Connally

Been here much more than a while
Location
Suffolk, Virginia
So, for those of you that make your living on contract work, I have some questions.

1. How did you set up your contracts? Did you use a lawyer and how do you cover yourself with liability? I assume anything that goes wrong the company tries to pass off on you. What about when the company guys damage your gear?

2. What happens when they estimate the job time wrong and you can't get it done in the time they thought you would?

3. What happens if you show up and the proximity to power lines is too close or the tree is just too dangerous to climb?

4. How do you do your taxes and note income?

5. How did you get your name out there?

6. Is it worth it? Do you get all the crap jobs nobody else wants to do? Do you work with a million crappy rope guys and does your stuff get stolen?

7. How often have you gotten screwed on pay?

So I'm thinking of a master plan. I'm tired of all the crap I deal with and want something more. I was thinking of contract climbing and maybe buying a track lift. I would charge minimum of 4 hour time slots for just climbing and different rates when using the lift. I think once people knew I had a 70' lift that would fit through a gate they would call. The investment would be minimal. Lift, trailer, mats for yard damage and maybe long term, something else to tow it with. Really the only thing I don't already have is a 660 and perhaps a bigger bull line. Other than that I am 100% set up to do contract work. It's basically the logistics of it I need to figure out. The only hesitation I have is needing to be done by 3 or 330pm so I could get my son from school. I would think most jobs would be down to a manageable pole they could handle in an 8 hour day. $35 to $40 and hour for climbing and $85 and hour for the lift and operator(me). Most freelance guys around here charge about $200 to $300 a day but they don't have insurance and it's cash under the table. I also wonder how it would work when we agreed on climbing and I showed up and determined the lift would be safer or quicker. Would they be willing to pay or just send me walking. I know around here getting it done cheaply is more important than safely or efficiently. More money in the company owners pocket. I have 7 years until I can retire from the fire department. Until then I would only be working 3 or 4 days a week. I suppose I could look for another climber to network with when I'm at the station but I would have to charge more to pay them what they are worth. It's a scary thought because I really don't know what I'm getting myself into here. It might be worth a chance and maybe, just maybe I could do some quality work around here. Thoughts?
 
I'm in the same boat as you mate. I'm going for it starting mid May. Im going to have a SIGNED agreement with anyone I climb for which will cover my rate and gear from any negligent use or carelessness from their employees. If you have a rate set, stick to it and understand that if they underbid the job you still get paid. I would be careful hiring someone to network with unless they have their own insurance set up. Keep workers comp non-existent if possible. Don't sell yourself short. I have seen a few of your clips and read a lot of your posts and you seem to know a thing or two. With that being said, I think your rate seems quite a bit too low. Go to your Secretary of State website and set up an organization of LLC or whichever business entity you chose to go with. From my research and understanding, an LLC seems to be the best route for this "mission". Then shop around for a general liability policy that covers tree work. Make sure you are covered at height. Now you're good to go. Good luck sir and if you go this route I wish you the best.

Cheers!
Kevin
 
Steve,
You and I are both in similar situations both having full time jobs with great benefits and unable to leave. Hopefully I am able to help with my advice I have been doing the contract thing for two years while I don't have a ton of advice if @rrocket chimes in he has helped me tons.

1. My contract was written by a lawyer as well as my LLC and operating agreement was set up by him as well. I totally recommend a lawyer it is money well spent out the gate and gives you a good foundation to work with. When they damage my gear I work that out on a case by case basis with their boss.
2. When their estimate goes wrong, I don't care less I bill by the hour no questions asked. I will happily leave when their timeline runs out.
3. These things are spelled out in my contract, If i feel unsafe I walk away until the situations is made safe at the hiring companies expense of course.
5. Home shows, city list to which I sent a flyer to everyone on it specifying what I capable of and willing to do, word of mouth mainly.
6. I think it is worth it cause it almost as good as owning my own service again just not all the headache. Also I can walk if the job is totally sketch or dictate a crane be brought in etc.... A million crappy rope guys yes and no often the companies here ask if I have a guy they can bring in to work with me. Thus eliminating the crappy guy. My stuff is never stolen, I keep close tabs on it and always perform an inventory of sorts before leaving the site.
7. My contract makes it a pretty open and shut deal if they don't pay. The one time I went to court the judge ruled in 5 min. (steve if you want a copy of my contract just shoot me a text.)

Another climber is fine as long as he follows your rules to a T. Generally a pain in your hind parts. The saws that is a pain, you almost have to have 2 saws/two that can do the same job. If one goes down you have to have a backup plan. This is the only thing I have run into to problems with. When I first started, I had a saw hard break and didn't have a spare it was a tense few moments til I figured out a plan. I don't have this problem anymore. I agree your rates are a bit low insurance will cost more than you expect. I think I answered most of your questions, You have my number call at will I would be happy, happy to help. You helped me big time when it came time to pick out a new saddle.
Jared
 
TreeVB said:
I'm in the same boat as you mate. I'm going for it starting mid May. Im going to have a SIGNED agreement with anyone I climb for which will cover my rate and gear from any negligent use or carelessness from their employees. If you have a rate set, stick to it and understand that if they underbid the job you still get paid. I would be careful hiring someone to network with unless they have their own insurance set up. Keep workers comp non-existent if possible. Don't sell yourself short. I have seen a few of your clips and read a lot of your posts and you seem to know a thing or two. With that being said, I think your rate seems quite a bit too low. Go to your Secretary of State website and set up an organization of LLC or whichever business entity you chose to go with. From my research and understanding, an LLC seems to be the best route for this "mission". Then shop around for a general liability policy that covers tree work. Make sure you are covered at height. Now you're good to go. Good luck sir and if you go this route I wish you the best.

Cheers!
Kevin
Click to expand...
Sound advice, if you don't carry workman's comp which I agree with at the very least take out a short term disability policy. These are not expensive at all for me I think it was like $38 a month. This covers me for up to 2 years if I would become unable to work. Signed contract is a must, further more a quality written boiler plate statement at the bottom is a must as well.
Jared
 
I wouldn't hire a Contract climber without his own workers comp and GL policy. As far as your gear I would pay for something if one of my guys messed it up , but that could turn into he said she said . I guess thats why I prefer just using my own employees ,so Im responsible for all of it. Oh if I was a contract climber and it was to close to the lines would drive off . We have been subbing for companies in the past and had to walk away .
 
Crazy_Jimmy said:
I wouldn't hire a Contract climber without his own workers comp and GL policy. As far as your gear I would pay for something if one of my guys messed it up , but that could turn into he said she said . I guess thats why I prefer just using my own employees ,so Im responsible for all of it. Oh if I was a contract climber and it was to close to the lines would drive off . We have been subbing for companies in the past and had to walk away .
Click to expand...
Workmams comp is not required if you are the owner or member of the company. In fact it quite counter intuitive if you are a one man show to carry it on yourself. GL liability is a must also make sure you have a GL liability that allow for the addition of an additional insurers at no additional cost. Many companies I work are added as addition insurers on my policy. I have a good agent who ensured this cost no extra.
 
Magnum783 said:
Workmams comp is not required if you are the owner or member of the company. In fact it quite counter intuitive if you are a one man show to carry it on yourself. GL liability is a must also make sure you have a GL liability that allow for the addition of an additional insurers at no additional cost. Many companies I work are added as addition insurers on my policy. I have a good agent who ensured this cost no extra.
Click to expand...
Thats makes no sense , just because its no required doesnt mean I would let someone work without it. If something catastrophic happened who do you suppose they are going after , my insurance or the home owners policy , no thanks . Plus I would have to pay for workers comp at the end of the year on any subbs that work for me that dont have it . In Texas we are not large enough to require workers comp either but why on earth would I go with out it ?
 
Steve Connally said:
So, for those of you that make your living on contract work, I have some questions.

1. How did you set up your contracts? Did you use a lawyer and how do you cover yourself with liability? I assume anything that goes wrong the company tries to pass off on you. What about when the company guys damage your gear?

2. What happens when they estimate the job time wrong and you can't get it done in the time they thought you would?

3. What happens if you show up and the proximity to power lines is too close or the tree is just too dangerous to climb?

4. How do you do your taxes and note income?

5. How did you get your name out there?

6. Is it worth it? Do you get all the crap jobs nobody else wants to do? Do you work with a million crappy rope guys and does your stuff get stolen?

7. How often have you gotten screwed on pay?

So I'm thinking of a master plan. I'm tired of all the crap I deal with and want something more. I was thinking of contract climbing and maybe buying a track lift. I would charge minimum of 4 hour time slots for just climbing and different rates when using the lift. I think once people knew I had a 70' lift that would fit through a gate they would call. The investment would be minimal. Lift, trailer, mats for yard damage and maybe long term, something else to tow it with. Really the only thing I don't already have is a 660 and perhaps a bigger bull line. Other than that I am 100% set up to do contract work. It's basically the logistics of it I need to figure out. The only hesitation I have is needing to be done by 3 or 330pm so I could get my son from school. I would think most jobs would be down to a manageable pole they could handle in an 8 hour day. $35 to $40 and hour for climbing and $85 and hour for the lift and operator(me). Most freelance guys around here charge about $200 to $300 a day but they don't have insurance and it's cash under the table. I also wonder how it would work when we agreed on climbing and I showed up and determined the lift would be safer or quicker. Would they be willing to pay or just send me walking. I know around here getting it done cheaply is more important than safely or efficiently. More money in the company owners pocket. I have 7 years until I can retire from the fire department. Until then I would only be working 3 or 4 days a week. I suppose I could look for another climber to network with when I'm at the station but I would have to charge more to pay them what they are worth. It's a scary thought because I really don't know what I'm getting myself into here. It might be worth a chance and maybe, just maybe I could do some quality work around here. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Pm sent
 
Crazy_Jimmy said:
Thats makes no sense , just because its no required doesnt mean I would let someone work without it. If something catastrophic happened who do you suppose they are going after , my insurance or the home owners policy , no thanks . Plus I would have to pay for workers comp at the end of the year on any subbs that work for me that dont have it . In Texas we are not large enough to require workers comp either but why on earth would I go with out it ?
Click to expand...
If they are a separate enmity like me because I am hired via a contract I can not legally sue anyone. It's my own responsibility to cover my medical care. My employees would have w/c if I had any. I am not saying your are wrong in your stand. If that works for you keep going. I had to come back to this and edit it so here goes. I carry my own medical insurance. Just not sure I understand your point about an individual not carrying W/c on himself. Wyoming it's a state run program when I spoke with they said it would not be wise to carry it on myself Their point something about paying in would cease when I started drawing. Also just thought of this you are not required to pay w/c on a company doing work for you back to my first point. A separate enmity. I am curiously waiting your reply I might be really missing something and you are about to enlighten me. Thanks
 
Last edited:
Magnum783 said:
If they are a separate enmity like me because I am hired via a contract I can not legally sue anyone. It's my own responsibility to cover my medical care. My employees would have w/c if I had any. I am not saying your are wrong in your stand. If that works for you keep going. I had to come back to this and edit it so here goes. I carry my own medical insurance. Just not sure I understand your point about an individual not carrying W/c on himself. Wyoming it's a state run program when I spoke with they said it would not be wise to carry it on myself Their point something about paying in would cease when I started drawing. Also just thought of this you are not required to pay w/c on a company doing work for you back to my first point. A separate enmity. I am curiously waiting your reply I might be really missing something and you are about to enlighten me. Thanks
Click to expand...
Im pretty sure if you got injured on the homeowners property you could easily sue them . I would do some research on it and Im sure it may be different from state to state . But like a lawyer told us in a TCIA class you can get sued for anything , even if its your own insurance company suing you to recoup some of there loses.
 
The moment you got hurt really bad a lawyer would try and convince the court that you where actually an employee . Like if you use any tools from the company your are subbing with or if you come to work at the time the company mandates . even though your are not an employee if some catastrophic injury took place , they will go after the money.
 
@Crazy_Jimmy I couldn't agree more with what you are saying. I am not jumping ship on my view for my position but I see your point very clearly and appreciate your professionalism. I learn quite a bit from your article you posted and for that I say thanks. You spoke about ensuring your subs would have w/c and GL policies but you never said you would have your company be additional insures on their policy which does essentially what you are worried about. I attempted to explain it earlier. Many companies I work for require that when I work for them the be additional insured. Thanks again and keep up the good work it truly sounds like you are a shrewd businessman and will make it far in life.
 
Yeah My GL has a spot for additional insures as well , but not my Workers comp. Theres a large builber around here that actually automatically adds the subs to there workers comp policy and then charges them for it . They said they got so sick and tired of subbs not having it and they couldnt hire them .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom