Confused on snap cuts

Ive always called it a Millitary Cut because it stands at attention till you tell it otherwise. I think im gonna try the magic cut. im new to tree buzz and relatively new to tree work only been at it as a climber for 2 years amd im learning a ton from tree buzz
 
I use the snap cut or offset cut alot. Mainly when i want the piece detached in an almost vertical position. You have to certainly pay antention to the lean of the piece relative to your offset or it can break free then all is lost. Im trying to visualize it in a felling situation. Seems to me u would have to leave a much larger offset if the lean was not favorable. Some headaches with that maybe. I consider it an cut for advanced people with alot of experience or practice with it. Great cut. Great thread.
 
An old thread but a good one...

I believe Dwayne and Davey got an award for this at TCI back around 2004 maybe(Detroit?)... Sometimes you have to think outside the box or the normal realm of work. If your doing a removal and the final stub to drop is over the edge of an embankment and you used a conventional notch and back cut the stub would hit the embankment and start bouncing and possibly strike the cutter and bang he becomes "Joe Statistic"...well none of us want to be that guy or do we want our co-workers to be that guy...If you use the notch, bore cut and make a snap/strap cut and then the cutter gets out of the way and the crew pulls the rope and the tree/stub comes over and if it bounces wildly on the embankment the cutter is out of the way and cheats death once again..
 
Kman this is exactly how Dwayne from davey sees it but in my opinion its completely useless. A bypass cut will not hold a tree in position. It's easy enough to break a short block off by hand that has been bypass cut, why would it hold a tree in position? It won't, at least not in any dependable capacity.

Wedges however will do the job very nicely.

Believe it or not, I recall when Dwayne was teaching this to one group he said "Yeah when we showed this cut to the guys in [a city] for the next few months they had trees falling on fences and into other yards nonstop." Hmm I wonder why...maybe because you're teaching them a 100% invalid technique?
 
I've used big by-pass cuts on big 20-30 foot vertical spars and let the crane snap them off after I was lower down the spar and gave the signal.

About a 6 inch spread works great on big vertical wood.

jomoco
 
Im not familiar with the award that was won. Trying to visualize what your saying. Strap cut or snap cut. Are they not 2 different things. I can see the strap being used or set up after the bore cut and face cut etc. Walking away and hiting the strap with a chicken stick (pole saw). That will hold all day. The snap cut worries me for that purpose because it is not gonna hold with any certainty unless its dead calm and you have lined it up perfect. Jomoco, I completley agree with you. Maybe im missing something here. Wouldnt be the first time.
 
I'd like to find video of the cut the heli-loggers use. Not the crew on Axe Men but the Canadian crew. The chopper comes in and picks the logs standing. Curious as to how the cut is done to leave the tree standing yet easy enough for the chopper to pop it off the stump.
 
Holding cuts/bypass cuts are directional cuts that need to be pulled towards the bypass point to come off cleanly and easily.

On a vertical spar being picked by a helo I suspect no fancy cuts at all are used other than a perfectly level cut all the way through leaving the spar free for a straight vertical lift.

Try pushing a snap cut away from the bypass point and you will find it won't let go easily at all, but push towards the bypass and it lets go easily provided the grain is relatively straight and no cats eyes or branch collars are between the bypass points. You want relatively clean straight wood grain between your bypass points for a nice clean releasing snap cut in my opinion.

jomoco
 
For the heli-logging the cuts are done well in advance of the pick so the cutter isn't anywhere near the base of the tree.

In the episode I watch one behemoth of a log had a bit too much holding wood making the pick tougher.
 
I'm very curious about bypass holding cuts being used by helo loggers being used or not.

Unless all the picks have the bypass cuts all pointed in one direction that the helo pilot is aware of, and doesn't mind the dynamic forces involved in directionally unsnapping each pick, then I rather doubt it is used for a standing helo pick.

But I'm curious as hell to find out though!

jomoco
 
I don't think it is actually a bypass. But they seem to leave a central core of holding wood. that the heli breaks when it lifts... it is quite something to watch..... Keep an eye out on TLC for the next show.
 
Wow nice video!

Something still aint right about that jigging cut, unless it's just an itty bitty triangular patch on one side only.

jomoco
 
It looked like they were just picking them up off the ground in that vid. I hope they were salvaging some lumber from those huge tops they were taking too. The tops they cut out would be money logs around here.
 
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There's also variation on this cut that I use to fall short logs off a spar. I came up with it myself, I'm sure others have too but I haven't seen any mention of it so I thought I'd post it. I call it a 'Magic Cut' because of the work it saves in getting large wood off of a vertical spar. You can see one used in this vid at about 3:00:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aM-_OK0raw

167771-Magic_Cut.GIF


[/ QUOTE ]

Gord--

What is the benefit, if any, of your described method versus a facecut (conventional or humboldt) that is cut deep (beyond half-way assuming a dead vertical spar, or beyond the horizontal component of the center of gravity/ mass if a leaning), with a standard backcut? (Sorry I don't know about making drawings.)

Seems like there might be less less directional control with the bypass and no hinge fibers.

What can you tell me about it.

I've was just dumping vertical logs off the spar with said deep facecut, relief cuts, and a backcut? Seemed like the toughest part was getting the cuts lined up right so that they would meet together properly.
 
the cuts they use are the same but applied right break cut snap cut, as a climber didn’t use these much as you know maybe a smaller version on a piece of firewood the are a excellent in bucket as far as the lean you just make the break opposite the lean the low cut always at the side your going to break it. I have seen the done a few different ways. I usually make my cuts almost 3/4 the way through it varies and the cuts are between 4-6 inches apart. With practice you can make them on limbs but you have to spread your cuts apart and make them from side to side against the lean practice where it doesn’t matter no targets underneath. With practice huge breaks can be made i make 14 to 16 ft breaks with big wood for log truck you just have to keep bucket far enough away so you have to reach to get it then when you stand back up straight you already have pressure on it break it and manipulate it where you want it to go and let it go and never make a cut where a limb was or a knot hope this helps someone and if i repeated anyone sorry
 
[ QUOTE ]
Gord--
What is the benefit, if any, of your described method versus a facecut (conventional or humboldt) that is cut deep (beyond half-way assuming a dead vertical spar, or beyond the horizontal component of the center of gravity/ mass if a leaning), with a standard backcut? (Sorry I don't know about making drawings.)

Seems like there might be less less directional control with the bypass and no hinge fibers.

What can you tell me about it.

I've was just dumping vertical logs off the spar with said deep facecut, relief cuts, and a backcut? Seemed like the toughest part was getting the cuts lined up right so that they would meet together properly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find that compared to deep undercuts this is a faster and in some ways safer method. The cut is much easier to make and adjust if you happen to gun it wrong at first. Also, because the final cut is made below the others there's no chance of having a 'saw snatcher' moment. I should point out that 95% of the time I don't use a pull rope with this cut. It's by no means a cut that I would teach to someone new to treework, it's an advanced technique that can save a lot of work and time when used within it's limitations.
 
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