Compost Tea

Regarding this comment,[ QUOTE ]
Compost tea is NOT a ferilizer it is a bio-stimulant ie. increases the health of the soil. and it will not directly increase the health of the tree, shrub or turf

[/ QUOTE ]. why would you apply to the foliage
 
So many good points raised here, I couldn't pick one to quote.

I make aerobic (bubbled) and anaerobic alfalfa tea for my garden. Rabbit pellets and epsom salts in rain water. Gets ugly-looking and smelling in a hurry either way. I apply it, hoping that any biology I add will be good.
I understand the Soil Food Web model is all about returning the correct type of biology for the application at hand. Formulations for trees are supposed to be heavy on the fungi from my understanding. Seems to me that if done properly using native compost it would more likely be successful at re-establishing good soil biology than using a product like Myke.
But as Vince wonders, adding the biology alone is not the full story. Have to add the organics to feed the biology which feeds the tree. Always. Unless you are going to maintain soil artificially through NPK applications, which for some situations might be all that can be managed.
A compost tea regime done poorly or without regard to remedying soil compaction and organics would be the equivalent of bio control done buy buying a bunch of foreign ladybugs like some people do, and throwing them in the air and hoping that their gardens will return to some kind of magically restored environmentally responsible paradise. Not that simple.
 
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In order to improve soil (and tree) health, you want oxygen to be in abundance. But as we already know, urban soils tend to have less oxygen, because they tend to be compacted. We also know that soil compaction is likely the number one stressor of urban trees.

Adding 10-10-10 doesn't address soil compaction at all.

The key to de-compaction, in my mind, is to add organic material back to the soil, as well as the good de-composers (fungi, bacteria, protozoa, etc). The organic material has more surface area to keep nutrients in the soil, the organisms that consume organic material naturally de-compact soil through their movement, which improves oxygen availability and water penetration.

Remember, most tree health issues are not N-P-K related, they are compaction related.

Of course, if your soil sample indicates a low level of these, by all means add them. But without addressing the more common issues, like soil compaction and poor soil biology, we run the risk of thinking only about today.



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Well said, except the way soil organic matter improves soil health is obviously much more complicated than that. But shifting the focus from fertilizer to OM content and bulk density (pore space) in the soil will do more to improve the health of the tree than wasting $ on fertilizers that don't get to the ROOT of the problem.

jp
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I've been brushing the surface of researching this as well. I think the Harvard Video tells a lot.

As I understand it too... It will help the soil out in many ways. The mid-west and the east coast has much better soil than what we have in Colorado. Most soil here is compact clay and alkaline. You sould see the problem we have with iron chlorosis in Maples. And the nurseries keep selling them... (another topic)
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****I'm wondering if the compost teas could help release the iron in the soil to help Maples out here.

So, like others have mentioned above, it sounds like the compost teas are a good long term investment for all plants & trees on the landscape. Because is is treating the poor soils.

Urban landscapes are too sterile IMO. I think it is foolish to dispose of leaves. People are getting rid of their organic material (from their own tree)...

The conclusion then: Providing the service of organic teas could be a win-win situation for the customer and tree service, and not to forget, the soil and plants/trees that live in the soil.
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I don't think it should be dismissed at all.

And worm casting teas is something else I'd like to research and get into...
 
Here is a thougt:

Wouldn't it be cool to have mulch piles to set for composting? More specifically, seporate compost piles species specific. In other words, a compost pile of Maple, Linden, Oak, etc...

Then, apply species specific compost teas to the species you are applying to. Didn't Shigo suggest something like this along the lines of vertical mulching?

Or, would it not be diverse enough?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Here is a thougt:

Wouldn't it be cool to have mulch piles to set for composting? More specifically, seporate compost piles species specific. In other words, a compost pile of Maple, Linden, Oak, etc...

Then, apply species specific compost teas to the species you are applying to. Didn't Shigo suggest something like this along the lines of vertical mulching?

Or, would it not be diverse enough?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that we can easily over analyze mulch quality. I would think that you'd have little measurable difference with custom species mulching. Maybe you should set up a trial?

I think that one should develop a series of wood chip piles and add some compost tea to them a couple of times a year to speed decomposition and to add a large diversity of micro organisms. The most composted (2 years?) could be used as a soil amendment and capped with fresher, more appealing chips.

If you can get people to spend a premium for species matched mulches, i will bow to your superior sales prowess.

v
 
Hi All,

I am TimberJack's roommate, i thought i would join instead of writing through him.

compost is everything when brewing tea. most brewing compost has been worked for two years before it is ready to make tea, and has more woody matter (like wood chips) to promote high fungal numbers. it is not nessasary to be tree specific with the chips, however, having one compost for trees and one compost for turf is a good idea (compost with more "greens" than "browns")


one trick i would like to share is to add 5 - 7 LBS of Organic Oatmeal per yard, to your tree specific compost, this will promote your fungal strands to bloom and multiply pre brew. Adding the Oatmeal 2 weeks before you brew should be sufficent time for this to happen providing its incorporated well.

i will post some pics of the results of the oatmeal trick shortly
 
Penn State found "some" effective control for powdery mildew and botrytis on grape yet Cornell found zero control of powdery mildew on pumpkin using aerated compost tea. There seems to be no credible scientific endorsement for aerated compost tea as a pesticide.
furthermore,
Aerated compost tea is not registered by the EPA as a pesticide. It is illegal to recommend its use as one, or to apply it as such to another person’s landscape.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode07/usc_sec_07_00000136---j000-.html

Clearly we can boost the microbial activity in the soil with this stuff but why bother when the intact compost as an organic mulch layer is a much better way to go? Think of how much credible scientific data we do have concerning the benefits of intact compost as a mulch.

leaching material from compost puts you at risk of coming in contact with E. coli and Salmonella populations. Runoff of compost teas could conceivably contribute to water pollution.

I believe i will stick with intact compost as a mulch until science convinces me otherwise.
 
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Clearly we can boost the microbial activity in the soil with this stuff but why bother when the intact compost as an organic mulch layer is a much better way to go? Think of how much credible scientific data we do have concerning the benefits of intact compost as a mulch.

.

[/ QUOTE ]

Applying compost is always a good idea. But Tea has the benefit of cost effectiveness. You can cover more territory with a much lower manpower and materials cost.
 
Harvard debunked. Be sure to read Dr. Chalker-Scott's comments below the article.
https://sharepoint.cahnrs.wsu.edu/blogs/...rks-dammit.aspx

These brewed compost teas contain leached nutrients/components from the compost and from the molasses. Of course that effects fertility in some way. I don't recommend it but dumping simple sugar water around a tree also effects fertility. Bottom line is that compost tea has no credible data to support it. It's illegal to apply as a pesticide, dangerous to make/apply and adds little if any benefit to the soil.

Good thread.
ed
 
Elaine Ingram of Oregon State has been doing credible research on compost tea for years. I agree and wouldnt use CT as a pesticide either or as a stand alone fertilizer. Applied correctly it does add benificial microbial matter to sites that have been prepped thrugh vert mulch, radial trenching, or granular humate apps. I can supply several articles to the effect. As far as being dangerous I would say its only as dangerous as any neglect can cause from keeping brewing supplies unclean. Non aerated teas are far more dangerous. I have never heard of a single case of E Coli in actively aerated compost tea.
 
“What we are saying is users should not be misled to think aeration alone prevents growth of potential pathogens- it will not especially in the case of E.coli.”
http://woodsend.org/compost-tea-research-updated-shows-little-benefit-to-aeration-technology

There are so many legitimate products we can sell to our customers. Why latch on to one that has little supporting data? One that is dangerous to make. Dangerous to apply. One that Michael Dirr calls "voodoo" and Dr. Smiley discounts outright as a soil amendment.

Intact compost as an organic layer may not bring the premium that ACT can... but it is legitimate.

ed
 
I thought this forum was pro compost tea, if you want to continue to post the same tired Bartlett reaserch: which by the way was bias and totally non scientific and was published only as an excuse why Bartett is not using compost tea then please start an alternative forum.


Also, yes CT is not a fungicide, or a fretilizer but, has been proven by both Soil Food Web and Harverd to have benifits in both aspects.

And E-COLI will NEVER NEVER NEVER be an issue if you are using the right compost


thank you Marlinspiker for the back up on these subjects
 
Actually this forum is Tree Buzz. A website dedicated to the practicing professional arborist. As a practicing BCMA I strive to give my clients a science based product. Compost tea ain't science. Its science fiction.

Hit us with data, Mr. Tea. Show me this Harvard "proof" you have.
 
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