Climbing an extra few feet

D

dmonn

Branched out member
Location
Port Washington Wisconsin
Right now I'm mostly felling ash trees (EAB). I climb SRT and cut limbs as I climb, then want to top the tree (usually the top 20 feet or so). Most of the time I don't need to rig the tops.

My tie-in point is usually the top-most division of the main trunk where the size of the trunk still looks safe, but nothing higher-up to tie into. To cut off the top(s), I'd like to be a few feet higher than my TIP for better ergonomics while sawing with a hand saw.

To get the extra few feet, one thought I had was to use a long webbing loop, reach up and girth hitch it a foot or so above my TIP, and use the rest of the loop for a footloop. Maybe create a double footloop for more comfort. I would leave my SRT system intact and maybe slack it a bit, step up with the footloop and lanyard in. Then cut the tops. Does that sound safe, simple, and reasonable? Any better suggestions?
 
I hate climbing with spurs when I've got a climbing rope attached. I've nicked my climbing rope with my spurs a few times, and hate to see the damage to the climbing rope. I'm much more comfortable climbing SRT, and without spurs on. For me it's a lot faster and feels safer.

Maybe my spurs aren't comfortable enough or I haven't done enough climbing with spurs to develop good technique. At the point where I'm going to top the trees, the trunk is often kinda skinny for spurs. Maybe it's my technique, but when the trunk gets down to 5 or 6 inches in diameter the tree sways with every step up. My spurs are so close together that I feel unstable--like I could easily swing sideways halfway around the tree and have the spikes pop out. Not a comfortable feeling.

Tied in with a rope makes me feel safe and secure by comparison.

Comments?
 
Get good on spurs for removals. Best advice I was given for working in spurs is to not jam the spurs into the wood. Simply step up on them and let them do the work. Take little precise steps. Jamming or forcing the spur into the tree causes you to miss and spur out or gaff yourself or your rope. You should be able to comfortably stand on very small diameter spars with no trouble and a little practice. Like rock climbing, trust your feet.
 
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On smooth bark trees I'll sometimes climb in my pole gaffs - which are shorter spikes than tree gaffs. This'll put you a little closer to the stem than longer tree gaffs and they are a little more stable on small diameter stuff (on one of Daves Wesspur videos some years ago). Only thing is, you have to watch you don't gaff out lower down on the trunk where the bark is thicker/ more ridged (that too a rite of passage?). So climb with a lanyard wrap on the trunk, so you only skin your knuckles if you slip. Pole gaffs aren't recommended usually for trees, but they do help in this instance, with keeping your foot closer to the trunk. Where I come from, climbing above TIP is generally a no-no with tree harnesses, ropes, etc. - they're not meant for dynamic falls like alpine gear. Watch your potential fall factor.
 
SRT, double rope, or spiking directly up the tree all have their place. I think the key is to know when to use what and not get stuck in 1 mode. Using slings to stand in is last resort for me. You will not get good on spurs unless you do it. Getting out of our comfort zone is how we improve. I am having a hard time understanding why climbing a few more feet then topping makes any difference if there is no target. And with a hand saw?
 
I've done a lot of dead Ash trees on spurs in the last few years. They get very hard and don't like to hold a spike if it isn't set with some authority. The scar on my stomach from a spike slipping out and my stomach scaping off of a short little nubb is a great reminder why its not a good idea to just step on the spike and not kick it in on a dead ash. I've known a couple guys who sharpened their spikes to straight little needle points so they didn't have to ever kick in, but then they get stuck too easily and pull your knee out of the socket when you pull them out.
 
RBJtree said:
I've done a lot of dead Ash trees on spurs in the last few years. They get very hard and don't like to hold a spike if it isn't set with some authority. The scar on my stomach from a spike slipping out and my stomach scaping off of a short little nubb is a great reminder why its not a good idea to just step on the spike and not kick it in on a dead ash. I've known a couple guys who sharpened their spikes to straight little needle points so they didn't have to ever kick in, but then they get stuck too easily and pull your knee out of the socket when you pull

Flush cut all stubs...
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Learn to do what isn't comfortable, if it's the right thing.



'Nobody' wants to do abs at the gym, focusing on bi's and tri's. Easy because people do them.

Poor core strength makes climbing harder and less secure.

Practice what you're not good at, be it "abs, instead of bi's and tri's", literally, or spur climbing.

If you spur your rope ----
YOU ARE BEING SLOPPY! STOP! IT'S SIMPLE!
You have no room for being sloppy in climbing!!
I say this for your own good. If you think not-spurring your rope is hard, quit now. It's such a simply manageable part of climbing life.


Would you say that you won't drive a car because you keep driving into things because you're careless enough that you don't look?

Get good positioning and use a chainsaw, rather than wiggle yourself (a large mass) around on the top of a dead tree with bad roots, known to be unstable. Handsawing is not smooth like the pull of a trigger.
 
I had my tree gaffs keep getting stuck in one very large spruce we were dismantling last year. This thing was a goop factory. I had isopropyl alcohol at site to clean off the gaffs at lunch but no go. Never seen anything like this. The homeowner came out and gave me a piece of candle wax/ beeswax. Rubbed this on the gaffs at lunch and at break and it did the trick, but honestly I couldn't believe how stuck I was getting sometimes. Always something new I guess. If anyone has any other tricks for this I'd like to hear.

Agree with gaffing the rope comment SST - move with purpose and always think two moves ahead. Anything at height is no place for autopilot - treework or alpine. Live long and prosper.
 
ghostice said:
I had my tree gaffs keep getting stuck in one very large spruce we were dismantling last year. This thing was a goop factory. I had isopropyl alcohol at site to clean off the gaffs at lunch but no go. Never seen anything like this. The homeowner came out and gave me a piece of candle wax/ beeswax. Rubbed this on the gaffs at lunch and at break and it did the trick, but honestly I couldn't believe how stuck I was getting sometimes. Always something new I guess. If anyone has any other tricks for this I'd like to hear.

Agree with gaffing the rope comment SST - move with purpose and always think two moves ahead. Anything at height is no place for autopilot - treework or alpine. Live long and prosper.
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I file my gaff tip into what looks like a triangle instead of a needle like point. Helps the gaff from sliding and getting stuck especially on soft wood.
 
Gaffing out is due to the angle you are applying pressure on the spur, not how deep you are in the wood. Same guy who taught me about spurs pointed out his spur tracks... You could barely see them. Pin pricks. I was out there stomping on the wood with my spurs, getting them in deep and I was still gaffing out, Peeling out the bark, huge chunky scars. My angle to the wood was not right. Dull spurs do not help.
 
treebing said:
Gaffing out is due to the angle you are applying pressure on the spur, not how deep you are in the wood. Same guy who taught me about spurs pointed out his spur tracks... You could barely see them. Pin pricks. I was out there stomping on the wood with my spurs, getting them in deep and I was still gaffing out, Peeling out the bark, huge chunky scars. My angle to the wood was not right. Dull spurs do not help.
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All of that is correct and part of that is filing the point of the gaff at the correct angle not just into a point. The triangle I mentioned earlier is all about the point going in at angle not just straight down. I hope I am explaining it right. This is especially important on dead wood with no bark because you have even less of the gaff penetrating. Climbing on spurs takes practice and confidence.
 
In 45+ years of climbing I never spiked myself. I did poke a spike through the toe of my winter pack boots. The spike went between my big toe and first...no cut

This might be from learning to climb from a Bell System pole climber. He taught me to set the spike and move up, keep my knees out from the tree...easy since I’m a bit bowlegged...sharpen spikes using the factory guage, once I step up lock my knee and get on bones instead of muscle

Back to OP question...simplest solution for gaining a little height has been shared. Choke a sling to use as a false crotch.

As always...be wary of going too high into infested ash. Keep a good safety margin.

After a few seasons of taking ash down from a bucket I had a better sense of strength loss. Comparing how bombed out branches and tops broke from infected trees fractured compared to un-infected trees changed how I considered ash. Even tops that had little infestation changed...and shattered easier. Careful
 
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