Butterfly II

Yes, yes. I've tried it. Only a few times, but so far so good. I have a bunch of photos I took. I am waiting for a moment when I will have some time to put those photos up here. I'm a busy guy!

I'll see if I can get those photos up tonight.

love
nick
 
Ok- let me see if I can get a few photos up here. First off, I want to start by saying that my first saddle ever was made by...well, I don't know, but it was the butt-strap style and it's what they gave me at The Care of Trees on my first day. After about 2 weeks I talked to the boss man and he said that I could get another, and I got a Master II (buckingham, of course). I picked that one because being a rock climber, I was used to the individual leg straps. I remember one of the guys used a bosun seat harness, and some used the butt strap, but I wasn't used to trying to move with my legs pinch together.

Anyway, after about 2 months in that saddle, I started looking at others. The Master II was good, but was there something better for me? After looking at and trying on a whole bunch of them, I concluded that the Master II was good for me and stuck with it. The first one I had was blue and orange. When I left TCOT, I bought my own, and being from WI, was glad that it came in my colors, "packers green and gold!"

So basically for the next two years, this was my saddle of choice. I tried out others on occasion, but these trials only reaffirmed that the MII was the one for me.

So this is where I am coming from. So far my Butterfly II review can be summed up in a few words: "It's not a bad saddle." I am going to keep it, but I don't know if it will replace the MII soon.

Anyway, I've taken a few pictures of some of the things I did and didn't like about the saddle. You can interpret the things I did like as either, "my MII has this and and I'm glad, or my MII doesn't have this, and I wish it did." And the dislikes might be interpreted as, "This is different than my MII and I wish they'd redesign it so it DID have this feature."

Alright, let the fun begin. I will start with a photo of the back, followed by a bit of commentary on the leg straps.
 

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Okay, if you look inside the yellow circle, you'll see something that is very different from the MII. The leg straps are TWO pieces of 2" webbing, compared to the one piece of 2" on the MII. This is a very good thing. Wider webbing means that the weight of your leg/body is distibuted over a wider area, duh! Basically, it a bit more comfy on the bottomside of the leg. Granted both saddles have adequate cushions to help distribute the load- the butterfly is making things nicer for us. If you look closely, the second piece of webbing is a sewn-on attachment that sits at an angle. It's ergonomic! It's like they planned it out and everything!

Ok, inside the blue circles you see something that in the rock climbing world I would refer to as either the butt strap or the comfort strap. These two straps do not serve add strength to the harness, but rather to keep the leg straps where you want them. You can tighten the straps down and have the leg straps ride really high so they crush you in places /forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif or you can loosen them a bit and have them sit wherever you'd like.

Now on the MII, there is one comfort strap per leg strap. In the Butterfly, there are two. I haven't noticed a difference yet, but my initial reaction is that it's too much. On my MII, that comfort strap tore when it got snagged on a branch one day when I swung from one limb to another (a swing further much further than I normally take and I tell you my heart about stopped when I heard the ripping sound /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif ) Anyway, when I got home that night, I cut off both the comfort straps and replaced them with a stouter webbing. I don't like messin' with my saddle when it may compromise the strength of it, but these are not strength/weight bearing components, so I cut them off and sewed new ones directly to the back pad. Point is, i will leave the 4 straps (2 on each leg) for a little while, then if I see them as extra, out come the scissors and warm up that Singer, because I will put just one, right where it's needed.

That's minor, though.

Finally, I like that the buckles on the leg straps are easier and faster to connect and disconnect that those on the MII. They are, to use MB's phrasing, the Cadillac of buckles. And something that Tom pointed out a while ago regarding the Glide saddle- these buckles are not pointy, thus friendly to the finger tips. And FWIW, the MII buckles aren't bad, but you do have to get used to them. These are perfect from the get-go.

Ok....what else.....

love
nick
 
Side D\'s and chainsaw attachment....

Okay, 2 things on the side of the saddle. The purple arrows point to some ingenious planning on the BII. The side D's are sewn down in 2 places, meaning that try as you might, you can't point the D to the back. It stays where it belongs come hell or high water. On my MII, the D OFTEN flips backwards making it a 2 step process to clip in the lanyard, flip the d over, then clip. Pain in the butt. The BII excells in this regard. Also, the D is bigger than what I'm used to, but I don't anticipate this being a bad thing...just different.

Now there is a question here that I have for the manufacturer of the BII (I guess I should ask them...anyone got an email address for me?) Basically, regarding chainsaw attachment, looks like I have one choice for hanging a chainsaw. That ring hanging from the black webbing is my only choise. The blue arrow is pointing to it, for those who are unsure. Even then, it will surely require one more piece of metal to attach the saw. A carabiner, a clip..something.

On my MII, there is a tiny slot that I could just barely get a carabiner in. This carabiners sits in there upside down and from about and darned angle I can get the chainsaw out with one hand. Now if you look at the yellow lines, they are denoting a free zone. It's not exact, but you could clip a carabiner into the red webbing anywhere along here and it would be free to slide as you move around the tree. We can't have this as we're climbing. I like knowing EXACTLY where things are. I don't want to reach for my saw and find that it has slid back 3 more inches. With that in mind, I ask my question: "Where do you expect me to attach my saw?."

Bear in mind that I might go play with this thing tomorrow and see, "Hey, right here...it'd fit right here perfectly!" I'll let you all know if that happens.

I think that's it for the side of the saddle. Let's move on.

love
nick
 

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I too was climbing on a MasterII. The Butterfly II is much better. One thing that was not mentioned is that the leg straps are elastic and stretch when you need them to. The Master II has nylon straps that just press hard against your butt.
 
The bridge and the nearby parts

Okay, last response for now. It's 8pm and I'm still in the office. I need to get outta here!

THE BRIDGE: Maybe one to 1.5 years ago I spliced my own bridge on to my MII. There's pictures of it somewhere at arboristsite, if you wanna see it. I used vectran and it is super strong, but wore away quickly (a few months it lasted). I then replaced it with yalex which is not as strong, but more durable. I've replaced it periodically while bored, just to make sure I'm not getting complacent and using shoddy equipment! But since week one of having a bridge, I was addicted. This was before I really had a chance to try out the Butterfly I. But I respected the butterfly because it was designed with a bridge on it. I know I am taking a risk (maybe small or large! I think I know the answer.) by putting on my own bridge on the MII. The BII appeals to me because it is MEANT to have one. And the best part.....experience will tell you (and so will countless emails and posts on treebuzz and arbosite) that the bridge is a wear-item. It needs replacing. The original Butterfly only had rings. These rings meant that your only choices were to tie on your bridge replacement or splice it directly to the harness. Both ideas I didn't like (though, as I've stated, I'm not above splicing directly onto the harness).

The BII acknowledges that we're going to need to make some changes and it boasts a bow-shackle (gray arrow points to it), likely stolen from a german sail-boat somewhere /forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif . This thing is good for it's purpose. Nothing sticking out to snag things, like what is found on SOME snap shackles, but rather an allen-head pin that screws in and out. Now I can pull out the original bridge, which I think is too long, and splice my own, on the splicing bench, to whatever length I want and from the material of my choice, then screw it in to the BII. Genius. Thank you to the people at Komet for the foresite.

LEG STRAP CONNECTOR: There is a piece of sewn webbing, marked by the black lines on the photo, that serve as a connector from the shackle to the leg strap. I don't know if it's necessary, so I am going to try to remove it and run the leg strap straight through the shackle. I haven't done it yet and really do anticipate saying (maybe outloud), "Oh, now I see why they made it the way the did. This feels like pain. I will change it back to the way it originally was now." But I have to try. I am a minimalist most times and if I can get rid of something that I'm not using and don't need, I will.

STRAP KEEPER: The green arrow is pointing to a clever buckle that allows the wearer to position the leg strap connector where ever they'd like along the webbing on the leg strap. If I do what I just mentioned, about taking the Leg Strap Connector off, this piece will be obsolete. If not, this will be a handy buckle that will allow the precise adjustment that lets the saddle fit how "I" want it to.

Finally, the ring on the bridge is outta here. It might be good for some people, but I like clipping my 'biners directly to the bridge. That ring is not needed for me. Are there some out there that do like it?

Okay, I think that's it for now. I might bring more as I try it more. Let me know if you have other questions about it.

love
nick
 

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Final note

first off, good point, Rich. The comfort straps ARE elastic. I am not yet sure if I like that, either. I considered, when replacing the comfort straps on my MII, putting in elastic. I opted not to out of fear that they'd move around more than I wanted whilst climbing (can I use "whilst?" It's fun.)

So my final note: Maybe some of you are drawn to this thread because you are considering getting this saddle. You were hoping to walk away with, "It is good, buy it" or "Not worth it, save the money and buy something nice for the lady." Well, I know that we could both go climb in this saddle in the same tree on the same day and do similar things, and at the end, come up with different opinions.

What I AM trying to do here is look at the details and help each of us be able to decide if this is the saddle for each of us. And for what it's worth, but Fresco and Sherrill have good deals on this saddle (one of them is cheaper, but you have to call for yourself). Both will ship it to you and you can hang in it a few times (don't get it dirty yet, Butch!). If you don't like it, ship it back. It will cost you 8 dollars to ship it back, but at least you will KNOW if it's the one for you. I originally thought I was going to ship mine back, but looks now like I'm gonna keep it.

My side agenda for a this thread is that some manufacturers will say, "Ohh, these are the features that make a saddle better.....lets put these on next year's saddle!"

So speak up if you disagree!

love
nick
 
Re: Final note

I thought I'd put up a picture of the side of the saddle. This is to show the part I don't like...there's no place to hang your saw-clipping carabiner.

In the pic you see a huge gap where one could clip the biner, but then it'd slide allover. I think this could be a quick fix on my Singer!

Where do you Butterfly users clip your saw?

love
nick
 

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Re: Final note

And FWIW I swapped out the manufacturer's bridge to a shorter one made by Petzl. This one's only 22kn. I might go to ANSI hell for this one! /forum/images/graemlins/popez.gif

love
nick
 

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Re: Final note

Somtimes I clip the chainsaw lanyard to the small ring next to the right D.
Many times I will however clip it into the sliding ring I put on my
modified bridge. It's the same ring where my prusik and climbing rope-carabiner
clips into. That way, the saw is often carried by the rope and the tie-in point.
It's also just as easy to reach to the left as to the right with the saw attached
like this. It doesn't work well when on spikes chogging though.

/ Oskar
 
Re: Final note

Hi Nick, Whats the problem with a 22kn bridge. Is it the strength that is the issue or just the modification.

ANSI #A10.14 1991 and EN 813,En 358 on euro harnesses means they only have to meet 15kn static load In the case of the American Standards Harnesses don't even have to be proof loaded.So the truth of it is your bridge may well be the strongest bit of your saddle

didj
 
Re: Final note

Yeah, I doubt that a saddle can hold 5000lbs. I do try to keep the 5000lb minimum on my gear, but 22kn is very reasonable.

So how strong to saddles have to be?

love
nick
 
Re: Final note

That doesn't mean it's overkill. Keep in mind that from the day of manufacturing, things are degrading and weakening. They weaken even faster when we start using them. There are other issues and that's why we always buy things that are rated for stronger than what we need. That's why the 5000/5400lb minimum exists.

Not only that, imagine being tied to a spar ONLY TO THE FRONT D of a saddle. Spar splits while hinging over a large piece. Comforting to know you've got buckles on there that can hold more that just your measly body weight.

love
nick
 
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